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Up Topic American Welding Society Services / Certifications / D1.1 Code Question
- - By TSchmidt (*) Date 02-15-2013 22:06
Can anyone point me to where in the code it talks about the maximum single pass size for a groove weld for GMAW and FCAW?
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 02-16-2013 00:59
Tables 3.6 and 3.7 if you are using a prequalified WPS. You can do what you want if you qualify the WPS.

Al
Parent - - By kevin zhang (*) Date 02-20-2013 03:07
Hello,

Al

I see table 3.6 is for "prequalified joint dimensions and groove angles for cjp groove welds in tubular T-,Y-,K-connections made by SMAW,GMAW-S,and FCAW".

and i have a question ,is there any contradiction between  table 3.7 and paragraph 3.7.3.2 ?

Best regards-Kevin
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 02-20-2013 03:21
I'm traveling this week, so I don't have the code with me. Sorry.

Brent, can you give the lad a hand?

Al
Parent - - By kevin zhang (*) Date 02-20-2013 07:47
:wink:Al you are really a busy man, you are always on traveling.

Thanks all the same.

I think Brent would help me.

Best regards-Kevin
Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 02-20-2013 12:59
I think paragraph 3.7.3.2 is for single pass fillet welds on weathering steels.....Table 3.7 doesn't seem to differentiate except when you invoke Note c which is about using weathering steels. Hope this makes sense.
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 02-20-2013 14:16
Hello John;

Thanks for reminding me of what the clause contains.

That clause causes problems for many users. It is a case of reading the fine print. The clause only applies to exposed, unpainted weathering steel that is welded with a filler metal that does not match the chemistry or corrosion resistance of the weathering steel.

The reason for limiting the size of a single pass weld, groove or fillet, is to ensure the weld is diluted with enough base metal that the weld and surrounding base metal have similar corrosion resistance. In other words, you can make a single pass fillet weld or groove weld with E7018 or E8018 and pick up enough alloys from the base metal that the corrosion resistance of the weld is as good as the surrounding base metal. The assumption is that the single pass weld is a homogenous mix of base metal and filler metal due to components mixing thoroughly in the molten weld pool. 

It does not conflict with the Table for Prequalified WPSs because it is a special case that requires additional considerations. For most fabrication, weathering characteristics is not a concern because the steel is painted, protected from weather, or enclosed within the building envelop. The limitations of the table are still valid for weathering steels if the fabricator uses matching filler metal to ensure multi-pass welds match the weathering characteristics of the weathering steel or when the steel is protected by paint or enclosed within the building envelop or if corrosion is not a concern.

Best regards - Al
Parent - By jwright650 (*****) Date 02-20-2013 14:25
Al,
I guess what trips us up sometimes is that we look at a sub-paragraph(3.7.3.2) as a single reference instead of looking at the parent paragraph which in this case is paragraph 3.7 "Weathering Steel Requirements"....and then goes on to list the requirements, and the execptions to those requirements, in the sub-paragraphs that follows the parent paragraph.
Parent - - By welderbrent (*****) Date 02-20-2013 14:18
Clap, Clap, Clap, Clap  :lol:

Oh my, it's been a long week.  Travelling myself but not as much as Al, maybe.  100 miles one way each day and back on snow and ice today.  Also planning two AWS Section meetings for March and some student meetings for 'Welding Month' in April.

ANYWAY, I think John nailed that one down guys.  Table 3.7 is applicable to the rest of 3.7 and combines with 3.6 as well.  BUT, 3.7.3.1 and 3.7.3.2 are dealing with the exceptions mentioned just above them pertaining to Requirements for Weathering Steel (3.7.3). 

We must remember to follow the train of sub-topics under their correct main division. 

Thus, no contradiction/conflict/mistake.  All is well in code world for another day.

Have a Great Day,  Brent
Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 02-20-2013 14:28
Thanks Brent.
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 02-20-2013 14:58
You two gentlemen hit the nail on the head. There is a hierarchy to the code. One must understand the hierarchy in order to use and implement the code’s requirements.

I was taught many years ago that the letters ASME stood for Always, Sometimes, Maybe, and Except. When one understands how a code is written it makes sense. The main clause tells the reader what subject is being addressed. The subordinate clauses provide the details including things that “always” apply, requirements that ‘sometime” apply, requirements that “might” apply, and “exceptions” to the other requirements. This is a perfect case of where the table list the “always” requirements, and the subordinate clauses list the “exceptions”, i.e., exceptions when using unpainted, exposed, bare, weathering steel. Footnotes are notorious for listing exceptions.

As John stated, rarely can one read a subordinate clause without reading the entire clause to see how things relate to each other. When someone only reads a subordinate clause things can be taken out of context. It is like forming an opinion about a novel after reading one paragraph.

Some contractors develop selective reading habits. They read one subordinate clause without considering how the rest of the clause or footnotes affect the total picture. It often gets them into situations that can be very expensive to correct.

Best regards - Al
Parent - By welderbrent (*****) Date 02-20-2013 15:04
SSSOOO true.

Have a Great Day,  Brent
Parent - By Cumminsguy71 (*****) Date 03-05-2013 17:28
Great reading guys!!! Thanks for the class!
Up Topic American Welding Society Services / Certifications / D1.1 Code Question

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