Welder Pass?
OK, I believe you are referring to what we in the US commonly refer to as the welder performance test record or the welder qualification test record.
You are correct in your assessment that there is no one format that is required by the welding standards used in the US. Each contractor can develop their own as long as it lists certain information and the essential variables associated with welder qualification. The same holds true with regards to the WPS and the supporting PQR, the contractor can develop their own format.
My WPSs, PQRs, and WPTRs are not the same as what you would see used by a different consultant. I tailor the format to suit the contractor's needs. The level of information provided is dependent on the work performed, the applicable welding standards, and the type of work instruction provided to the welder.
Limiting the conversation to welder performance qualification, the test record tpically list:
Welder's name and some form of identification. I use the welder's employee number, i.e., clock number.
The test witness, after all, the test must be supervised and administered by an individual authorized to do so.
The date the performance test was administered.
The welding procedure specification followed by the welder. I don't accept the "code" as a WPS, it is not.
The type of weld: groove, fillet, plug, etc.
The joint type: Butt joint, T-joint
The groove type: if it was a groove test
Base metal specification: the actual material used, not a selection of possibilities ("ASTM A36 or ASTM A572 Gr 70" is not an acceptable entry)
Thickness of the test coupon
Diameter and wall thickness if pipe is used
Whether backing was used and type
Test positions(s)
Filler metal specification
Filler metal classification
Filler metal diameter (if different diameters and classifications were used for the root and remainder, each must be listed)
Thickness deposited when more than one diameter or classification was used
F number, A number, etc. if required by the applicable standard
Shielding gas used (if it was used)
Current type and polarity if applicable
Test results for VT, guided bend tests, or RT for groove welds (bend tests results include: thickness, width, bend radius, summary of findings, pass/fail, and test temperature)
Test results for VT, macroetch, a fracture test for fillet welds
Certifying statement
Signature of the test witness/administrator
Signature of Contractor's authorized representative
Dates when WPTR or WQTR was issued.
Oh, heaven forbid, I also include a digital photograph of the welder that took the test. I take the welder’ photograph when he takes the test and import it directly to the test report.
Depending on the specific welding standard used, the extent of the welder's qualifications are listed, thickness range position, filler metal, etc.
Best regards – Al
Hi Al,
This is a very special day for me - I can actually teach you something. Ha Ha !! (only because I have inside knowledge)
The welder pass is exactly that - just the same as the security pass you get to clip on your shirt when you go visiting a company.
It is a small laminated card with the welders name, welder ID, processes qualified, material qualified, thickness qualified and diameter qualified or a variation of these.
That is what Nalla is asking - just for other peoples ideas for creating the "passes".
This system is predominantly used in Asian workshops and on large construction sites where you have hundreds and hundreds of welders and it is nearly impossible to remember everyone.
When I am doing roving inspections in the field I can stop, request a welders pass, check it is actually him in the photo and check that he is fully qualified for what he is welding based on the info on his pass.
Nalla, I see by yor e-mail you are in Singapore ? I am just over the Causeway in Malaysia.
Regards,
Shane
Dear Shane
Are you in Pasir Gudang, Johor- Which project?
Yes, I'm from Singapore but now stationed in Rio, Braziil for Petrobras Projects.
You are right, That's what called welder pass. I want more ideas from forum experts
Thanks
So, this is a synopsis of what the welder is qualified to weld, or the print is very very small to record all the information usually included on a AWS or ASME performance test report.
AWS' National Registry has atempted to do something similar to the "pass" you are talking about. I would not accept the two that were presented on a couple of jobsites because they didn't include all the information needed to assess th welder's qualifications. The Engineer of Record agreed.
Best regards-Al
Al,
They are not meant to replace a proper welders qualification / certification - they are in addition.
The certificates are all reviewed and approved prior to them striking an arc on the project.
The "passes" are purely an aid so you don't have to carry around folders and folders full of certificates when you are out in the field.
As an example a WQ for ASME IX SMAW has 7 essential variables.
Ensure all welders perform a 6G open root weld test before commencing and you are down to 5 essential variables that need to be recorded.
Quite easy to fit all the required info on a small card.
I have been exposed to the system for years and it actually works really well,
Cheers,
Shane
Dear Experts
Well said what the pass means
It must shortlist essential variables for easy verification. It is not a replacement of his certificate.
I want to know the format used by different contractors/yards/workshops.
Some welder qualified for muliti-processess - SMAW/ FCAW/GMAW/SAW - Mainly for sturcture welding
Some welders for piping qualified for GTAW only / SMAW only / GTAW/SMAW , GTAW/FCAW / GTAW/GMAW and for muitiple diferrent thk/dia.
Nowdays. contractor much prefer multi-range qualifications to keep overhead cost down
On the otherhand, one not necessariliy/have the opportunity to weld in all the process/ position qualified for.
And if he did not weld in specific process/positions for 6 months, then his ceritifcations becomes void.
Most contrcator not much bother about it as they believe by doing production welding just before expiry will re-validate his qualification.
Lets have some samples.please.
Thanks
Dear Experts
For a start pls explore on the attached sample
Some even include Certificate(s) Serial No.
Thanks
"Fine R$100 for loss of badge"
Nalla,
I'm afraid that no one on this planet can find "how much to fine" on AWS/ASME Code books. The "pass" you mentioned is no more than an internal practice of a company.
One can list anything he wants on such a "pass" as per the need of his company system. Al had given some very good info but I believe he was misled by your wording -
"To my knowledge both AWS D1.1 / ASME Sect IX codes do not dictate how welder pass shall/should be formatted". I was misled too.
If welders of a company were to get into narrow space or small pipe ID, at the company's discretion, the "pass" could even list the "belly size" of the welders and the "minimum allowed entrance" as an "essential variable".
...Just a joke~
Seriously, Code book doesn't cover all the details needed for the welding system of a company.
Hi Jovi
Fine is to instil sense of ownership. That's all. So often welders loss/misplace the pass...etc, thus add cost QAD to re-issue.
Thanks
Great idea Jovi,
"Belly size" - love it. LOL !!!
Cheers,
Shane
Shane,
I'm sure you know FME (Foreign Material Exclusion) is very important in boiler and pressure vessel industry.
Nalla,
This might be off topic hope you don't mind. To my experience I have not seen a "welder pass" as you described and think it is a company internal practice or management method and will not be addressed by any Code or industry standard.
Cheers,
Jovi
Jovi
It is indeed not codes requirement.
But useful for in-process monitoring.
Welders/ Welding Supervisors/QC/Client Reps. can easly understand what he qualified for.
Especially useful in yards having 1000 ~ 1500 welders
Thanks
Nalla,
Actually, there is one universal standard to answer it all.
ISO9001-2008
4.2 Documentation requirements
4.2.1 General
The quality management system documentation shall include
a) documented statements of a quality policy and quality objectives,
b) a quality manual,
c) documented procedures and records required by this International Standard, and
d) documents, including records, determined by the organization to be necessary to ensure the effective planning, operation and control of its processes.
NOTE 1 Where the term “documented procedure” appears within this International Standard, this means that the
procedure is established, documented, implemented and maintained. A single document may address the requirements for
one or more procedures. A requirement for a documented procedure may be covered by more than one document.
NOTE 2 The extent of the quality management system documentation can differ from one organization to another due to
a) the size of organization and type of activities,
b) the complexity of processes and their interactions, and
c) the competence of personnel.
NOTE 3 The documentation can be in any form or type of medium.
Nalla,
Have you been assigned a task to monitor 1000 to 1500 welders in one project?
Can you monitor 50 Inspectors
?
Joey,
ZPMC in China have 4000 welders in their yards.
On the Goro Nickel Project AG&P and EEI had approx 800 pinoy welders.
I was the only Welding Inspector employed by the client (AG&P / EEI had close to 100 QC/Welding Inspectors) so my day was spent randomly auditing welders.
Visually inspect the weld, check the WPS, check the welders "pass", ask a few questions in Tagalog and then move on.
I actually think the welders pass is a brilliant ID whether it is 20 welders or 200 welders (especially for 3rd party inspectors) as just about all the info you need is listed on their pass.
If you have any doubts or queries (or as Al noted you want to check additional variables) you just make a note and check when you return to the office.
Damn sight easier than pushing a wheelbarrow around site loaded with folders full of welder qualification certificates.
Cheers,
Shane
Hi Shane
G’day Mate!
More than 1000 welders in one project is a big volume of work for a single TPI alone. Can’t imagine how the lone TPI is able to cope with the work load required in inspection and test plan. I’ve worked with EEI in Kuwait during the late 80's before the Gulf war. At that time, I estimated more than 7,000 thousands pinoys were deployed in KNPC project. I remember there were at least 2 Polish TPI for each unit of about 30welders, aside from EEI own QC, the main-con (Braun Transworld Corp) also provided a group of Indian QC.
The welder badge has been around since I started to work in steel fabrication and construction. Whenever I’m attending a factory visit arranged by potential contractor, I will always look for welder wearing a badge. This is a good observation that you may report on whether the welder possessed the welder badge during the production work. Without this badge, you must be curious on how the influx of welder to the project is being controlled by the contractor.
~Joey~
The standard I’m familiar with stated.….
Each welder or welding operator shall be assigned an identifying number, letter, or symbol by the fabrication or erection Manufacturer. This is not directly telling you that the welder must have the "welder pass". But we don’t expect the employer to use a marker pen to write the given number or letter on each welder's face before the start of work
. It’s either the employer will issue the welder’s identification card or welder badge which indicates the identifying number (linked to qualification certs). The welder must carry this IC or badge, which is easily accessible to the Inspector for verification.
The RT reports also normally show the welder’s identifying number for each tested weld. The description procedure of identification card or welder badge must be addressed in the contractor’s QA/QC Manual.
~Joey~
