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Up Topic Welding Industry / ASME Codes / Weld Repair On Section VIII Vessel w/o a U-Stamp
- - By tom cooper (**) Date 02-28-2013 10:24 Edited 02-28-2013 11:58
Hello-

My shop has been asked to inspect and repair if/as necessary a 70 cu.ft air flask (3000 mawp) which was originally constructed as an ASME Sect VIII Div 1 vessel.  In it's prior life, the flask was p/o shipboard military equipment and is now intended to be used as facility test equipment. I am told it's pedigree is very good, i.e. all original design calcs, material certs, U-stamp documentation, inservice periodic inspection records are all available (I have not seen or reviewed the documentation).

Our shop does not possess a U-stamp.  I advised the project engineer and program manager that weld repairs (if needed) performed by an unauthorized shop will violate the Code status. They don't seem to think that retaining Code stamp is necessary for their test site application.

My questions are:
1. if I do any weld repairs which are not viewed as NBIC authorized, do I have to mark the vessel in any way?
2. are there any insurance repercussions of altering a Code Vessel and placing it into service in the proximity of public workers ?
3. can anyone cite NBIC chapter and verse (or any other law) that will help me help them with my concerns in questions 1 & 2 ?

I am sure everyone who reads this post will have the same opinion, but I need your help with cold hard facts.
Thanks if you can help.
-Tom
Parent - - By Jovi Zhu (**) Date 02-28-2013 11:10
Tom,
Not in the US but maybe I can understand it in a simple way:
Is NBIC Code contractually required? If the customer doesn't not require, why does the vendor?
Maybe the client just want to have the vessel repaired, colourfully painted and put it in a museum.

Just some throughts. But I believe you can find the answer on the contract with your client.
Parent - By tom cooper (**) Date 02-28-2013 17:05
Hi Jovi-
There is no contract, the situation is one division (test facility) being supported by another division (industrial facility), both groups are part of the same organization.
And the intent is to install the vessel in operation at the rated pressure.
Your question of "is NBIC Code required"  is sort of the same question I am asking.
-T
- - By 803056 (*****) Date 02-28-2013 17:43
If the pressure vessel was used aboard a military vessel (U.S. Navy) if was most likely constructed to the requirements of MIL-STD-278 (predicessor to NAVSEA S9074-AR-GIB-010/278). It would not be code stamped nor would it be registered wih the National Board. That isn't to say it could not be fabricated in accordance with ASME Section VIII. If it was fabricated to ASME Sction VIII, you should be able to find the original nameplate with the NB registration number.

Assuming it is not a stamped vessel you can do with it as you see fit. However, there are other factors you must consider.

     1) Do you reside in a state where they have adopted ASME for unfired pressure vessels? If so, you cannot use a vessel that does not have an ASME code stamp. If so, you cannot repair or modify a code stamped vessel and retain code status unless your shop is a stamp holder.
     2) Does your insurance policy state that any pressure vessels, fired or unfired, must be ASME code stamped? If it does (and most do include a clause that references ASME B&PV codes), you cannot use a non-code pressure vessel.

Best regards - Al
Parent - - By tom cooper (**) Date 02-28-2013 19:32
Hello Al-
I was hoping you would stop by.
Yes this vessel is Code stamped and for the most part, any mil spec flask or pressure vessel incorpoartes the ASME Section VIII Div 1 reqt's.  Also I agree that the fabrication documents for these mil spec flasks will invoke Mil-Std-278, so does this set up a discrpancy with the ASME Code?   

Well let me not get side tracked with that question, this particular flask is stamped and it's parent specification is an outline drawing which invokes ASME Section VIII Div 1.
 
Your statement, " If so, you cannot use a vessel that does not have an ASME code stamp."   is what I am looking for the origin of this requirment. This is all I need to help prevent us from making a mistake.
Hope you can help with that.
Thankyou.
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 02-28-2013 19:41
If it is an ASME stamped vessel, an AI had to sign off on it when it was originally constructed.

Any repair or modification on the vessel must be in accordance with the NBIC and once again an AI must be involved and the entity doing the work must be a stamp holder if the vessel is to retain it's "stamped" status.

The other considerations are whether you reside in a jurisdiction state/county/parish and does your insurance carrier require vessels owned or on-site to comply with ASME/NBIC requirements?

Review the company's insurance policy and look on-line to see if you reside in a state that has adopted ASME.

Best regards - Al
Parent - - By Bill M (***) Date 02-28-2013 21:54
I agree with the comments here.  The State where I live requires that:

Repairs or alternations to a stamped vessel has to be done by a holder of a National Board "R" Stamp.

Anyone performing such repairs, or even repairs of a routine nature as defined in the NBIC shall register the repairs with the National Board on NBIC form R-1 and shall stamp or attach a nameplate to the repaired item.

The R-Stamp holders AI is req'd to sign off on the NBIC R-1 form

If it is a Stamped vessel you should be able to get the original Manufactures Data Report
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 02-28-2013 22:30
It is interesting that you mentioned the "R" stamp.

I worked as the Fabrication Manager for several years for a multinational company that built pressure vessels. Their insurance carrier insisted they obtain an "R" stamp for any repairs. I'm not talking about vessels returned by the customer, I'm talking about any welding that had to be done after the AI signed the data sheet. If a leg was bent or a bracket damaged as the vessel was moved to the loading dock, it was considered a repair, thus the "R" stamp was required.

Best regards - Al
Parent - - By js55 (*****) Date 03-01-2013 19:21
If I may make a correction here. It is not required that code vessel be repaired by a code stamped contractor or in compliance with Section VIII or NBIC. Its just that it will no longer be a code vessel and cannot be used for those applications requiring a code plate. And the code plate needs to be removed. Original code vessels are refurbished every day for shyt services where the owner couldn't care less about code viability. Hell, they could store corn in the thing if they wanted. Nobody is gonna pay code vessel prices for a corn hopper.
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 03-01-2013 19:44
Thanks for joining the ruckus JS.

Al
Parent - By Joey (***) Date 03-04-2013 02:02
I’m not sure about NBIC requirement, but I know that ASME Sec VIII does not address the inspection and repair requirement of PV that has been placed in service. API 510 is the inspection code covers the in-service inspection, repair, alteration, and rerating activities. This inspection code applies to all refining and chemical process vessels that have been placed in service.

API 510 allows a repair organization, anyone below who makes repairs in accordance with the inspection code:
a. The holder of a valid ASME Certificate of Authorization that authorizes the use of an appropriate ASME Code symbol stamp (e.g. U-stamp).
b. The holder of a valid R-stamp issued by the National Board.
c. An owner or user of pressure vessels who repairs his or her own equipment.
d. A contractor whose qualifications are acceptable to the pressure-vessel owner or user.
e. An individual or organization that is authorized by the legal jurisdiction.

The API 510 authorized pressure vessel inspector is responsible to the owner/user to assure that the inspection, NDE, and pressure testing activities meet API 510 requirements. The inspector shall be directly involved in the inspection activities, which in most cases will require field activities to ensure that procedures are followed, but may be assisted in performing inspections by other properly trained and qualified individuals, who are not inspectors e.g. examiners and operating personnel.

~Joey~
Parent - - By js55 (*****) Date 03-04-2013 21:41
Its hit and run for me these days.
Been on the road a lot.
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 03-05-2013 01:24
I know what you mean. I'll be on the road until Memorial Day. As my father says, "Make hay while the sun shines."

Bst regards - Al
Parent - By js55 (*****) Date 03-05-2013 14:51
I just got back from LA and Charleston. Got Houston, Atlanta, Orlando, and Portland coming up very soon.
Parent - By js55 (*****) Date 03-05-2013 20:09
You find yourself passing through SE ohio or thereabouts let me know. I'll buy you dinner and a couple beers.
Up Topic Welding Industry / ASME Codes / Weld Repair On Section VIII Vessel w/o a U-Stamp

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