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Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / Justify Manufacturer of welding wire
- - By rmdrmd15 (**) Date 03-29-2013 17:16
Is there a way to justify switching from one manufacturer to another?

We currently use brand X e70s-6 wire.  Most of us would like to switch to Brand Y of e70s-6 but the bean counters what to quantify the cost.  ANyone know a way to do this.  I need a base line and a way to show improvement to weld quality.

I have been tracking weld quality at my shop and it's pretty good.  We do find bad welds and usually I can contribute it to the experience of the welder.  But when i find a bad weld, how can I say that by changing the brand of the wire that it will have a positive effect on the weld quality?
Parent - By welderbrent (*****) Date 03-29-2013 18:51
I ran several feet worth of weld in various positions with one wire, then switched and did exactly the same with the new wire with all other factors being identical: same machine, settings, gas, flow, etc. 

I did this because our welding supply switched my wire without asking just because they had gotten a pallet of this 'really cheap' stuff.  I told them I didn't care about cheap and made them send two guys to my shop.  I ran the test with them watching and showed them how much more spatter the one wire had, how often I would get a porosity issue, the weld beads looked rougher in comparison on the surface, it was an all around failure.  Told them I didn't care how cheap it was, don't send it to me ever again.  They started carrying two kinds of wire, one for hobbyist welders who only cared about price, and one of better quality for anyone who could notice the difference.  Only myself and one other shop asked for the better wire.  Doesn't say much for the abilities and concerns of many businesses out there. 

Now, you could add a time test to that and see if both put down the same size weld for the same length in the same time.  With the same machine and operator to keep all things consistent.

Have a Great Day,  Brent
Parent - - By MMyers (**) Date 03-29-2013 18:53
What is your reason for wanting to change?  Its generally easier to build a case from what you want than to go some other route.
Parent - By Milton Gravitt (***) Date 03-31-2013 00:04
Can you see any diffrence in the runing of the way the bead looks. Is in made here in the U.S.A. or is from another country.

                    M.G.
Parent - - By Metarinka (****) Date 03-31-2013 06:23
In all my time pricing welding activities I have found that consumables are usually the smallest driver on cost. Sure welding a super alloy requires expensive filler material but it costs alot more to have someone grind out defects.

I would say take a hard look at the two wires and account for labor in the prep and finishing department. If you can't tell any difference than you might be able to chaulk it up as a cost savings, other wise which ever wire has lower defect rate or requires less slag removal is going to win every time.

I spent the first few years of my welding engineering career switching a shop to more expensive consumables and demonstrating cost savings by reducing finishing and weld passes. Labor is well above 70% of welding costs.
Parent - - By jarsanb (***) Date 04-02-2013 21:22
I've been though this as well. Basically, why do you want the switch? Why are you looking to the more expensive electrode? Some of the reasons we've encountered are:
1. Better spooling capabilities. More consistant wire feed resulting in less down time and higher electrode usage.
2. Increased arc stability. Some of the cheaper electrodes are not held to the same chemistry tolerances resulting again in poor or sporadic arc stability.
3. Excessive lubricant on electrode causing increased down time and consumable consumption (such as liners being gummed up, inlet guides sealing shut).
4. Availabilty.

If you are wasting a lot of electrode from some of the cheaper brands then this is an easy sell.
Parent - By Metarinka (****) Date 04-04-2013 02:31
Said it better than me.  I look at maximizing arc-on time for my welders, and minimizing defects.  Focusing on those two will open your eyes to the fact that consumable cost isn't that big of a factor.
Parent - By Tyrone (***) Date 04-03-2013 10:59
Everyone's suggestions are good.  If you can burn both wires semi-auto or robotically, even better.  This would take the Welder's bias out of the equation.

Tyrone
Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / Justify Manufacturer of welding wire

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