tank code

Date 05-12-2013 15:58

I know there is STI (steel tank institute). They provide guidelines and certification programs on construction and stuff. Kind of like a manufacturer member organization thing like AISC.

By Sourdough (****)

Date 05-12-2013 17:10

I'll tell you Tommy, the processes that I experienced on these tanks seemed to be instituted to make up for lack of skill of the welders involved. There were a lot of times I thought, "I could run lh uphill just as fast as it takes for them to make downhill welds with big rod". Mostly on account of the repairs involved.

Seemed like a real cowboy affair....that's why I was asking who, in fact, writes a code to follow on the tanks. Glad I'm done with it. My structural gig got pushed back another week....looks like the rainbows in that river will suffer from another regamine of force feeding...heh heh.

By Tommyjoking (****)

Date 05-13-2013 02:58

well folks can write procedure all day long...enforcement has always been a different matter alltogether.

By dbigkahunna (****)

Date 05-13-2013 03:55

If you are working in the upstream side, production then a lot of that is done to API 12D. You weld it until it does not leak. I am serious. That is all. They do have "standards" the erector is supposed to follow. There is a contractor out here that has a 50/50 ratio of those that leak to those that don't. They hire rig welders and let them burn their equipment up running 3/16 jet. API 650 has appendix A that is about the same. No xray, no inspection. I have seen some of these that are 8 inches out of round on a 40 foot diameter tank. Contractor did not know how to round out the shell. Welder just welded up what they fit.
Contractors can sell turds to the producers. Neither one seems to care.
It amazes me what the upstream people will buy. A couple of months ago I saw 5 welders take 6 days to put a floor in a 21 foot diameter tank. Cost the producer $78K for that rodeo. Welds looked like crap. Laps were wrong with no rhyme or reason to the shingle. Pointed out what I saw and was told that is what you get. Pointed this out to the contractors supt and he laughed at me. Told me since the oil company did not care, he did not either. But let me tell you. That was the safest piece of crap I have ever worked on. Each welder had a helper and each welder had a fire watch. And there was a hole watch being sure they little darlins did not trip stepping through the door sheet. This was for a major oil company. Safety first. Quality oh 14 or 15. Forget even that. Not even worried about quality. Coated the tank then hydrotested the tank by filling it half way. Just like the job.
We mutually parted ways 2 weeks ago. They did not need or want me.
I call it job security.

By Sourdough (****)

Date 05-13-2013 05:07

Turd was the right terminology to use. I finally drug up when I had to repair 22, count em, 22 leaks on the first ring at the floor. I welded one of the rings that went together after fixing their "welders'" welds, and had no leaks. Why would there be...that's my simple question. I just had a belly full, and figured I could make money a lot of other less ridiculous ways.

Henry, these tanks will hold condensate and whatnot at a natural gas gathering plant. So its not like they can have leaks....but I promise you there will be

Kahunna, you know what I went through. Was making pretty close to 300 ft a day of 1" fillets with 1/4" jet, bout 320 amps. It was miserable being hunched over, even with my roll around stool. I mean miserable. At the end of the day, my truck seat was the best thing I ever had in my life. When I got back to the room I'd just sit in my truck for a half hour, to postpone having to drag myself into a shower. I kept up with those youngsters, but none of them will ever know how bad it hurt me...LMAO!!!

Well.....it was an experience. One that I will never have again.

By Sourdough (****)

Date 05-13-2013 05:16

The job I start next week will take place in a new genie lift, making full pen welds....just burnin rod.

That's the way I like to work.

By ssbn727 (*****)

Date 05-12-2013 23:17

Hey Sully! :yell:

What's that tank holding? :lol:

I'm no expert in petro tanks but DbigKahunna sure is FWIW...
I know there's API 570, 650 and probably others but, like I said before, Dbkahunna's the man to talk to here! :twisted:

These might be standards instead of a code but, I'm not 100% on that and Kahunna or Giovanni would be the ones to ask about that... Then again, Al could too! :twisted:

Then there's the American Water Works Association General Steel Tank Committee, Steel Water Storage Tanks: Design, Construction, Maintenance, and Repair. :lol:

Here you go Sully! Take your pick:

http://www.awwa.org/store/standards.aspx?Category=STAND&Subcategory=STORAGE

This one covers steel water pipe:

http://www.awwa.org/store/productdetail.aspx?ProductId=6820

Respectfully, (For the most part! :eek:

)
Henry

By Cactusthewelder (*****)

Date 05-12-2013 23:33

I have done several Jobs to the AWWA Code. When you dig into it, It all refers back to AWS D1.1

By welderbrent (*****)

Date 05-13-2013 03:30

It will also make reference to ASME. Mostly, as Henry said, you need to find the job specs to make sure of application for the finished work and what the engineer calls out as the applicable code.

Have a Great Day, Brent

By Jim Hughes (***)

Date 05-13-2013 20:42

It has been my experience the two codes mainly used are AWWA D100 (water storage) and API 650 (oil and fuel oil storage) both of which require radiography, PT/MT and a hydrostatic test. Radiography is graded to ASME Sec. VIII UW-51.

Thanks
Jim

By dbigkahunna (****)

Date 05-14-2013 20:44

Check out API 12D and API 650 Appendix A. No radiography in either one. Appendix A limits the JE to 0.70 which would limit the fill height, but after it is built the tank owner can pretty much get away with what ever he wants. A lot of AST fertilizer facilities have a Appendix A on the datum plate.
The 12D's are supposed to be limited to diameter and height, but if the tank erector puts it is a 12D tank or built to the standard. well..... I have a 120 foot diameter tank down the road from my house with a 12D Datum on it.
I have never worked with AWWA but would not think you could use AWS for the shell welds. A tank is a pressure containing structure and in most cases has notch toughness requirements. API allows AWS only for the structure welds. AWWA may recognize AWS certifications and procedures and I cant answer to that.

By Jim Hughes (***)

Date 05-15-2013 20:33

For appendix A you are correct but typically fuel oil tanks do not fall under that appendix. AWS is not a design code for pressure containing parts but API 650 does allow you to use D1.1 for WPS qualification. Per sec 9 of API 650 the welders are qualified under ASME Sec. IX. All design considerations are found in API 650 including welding.

thanks
Jim

By dbigkahunna (****)

Date 05-16-2013 02:06

API only allows AWS for the structures; handrails, platforms, ladders, stairways, etc. The shell, nozzles and appurtenances require WPS, PQR, and WPQ per Section IX. A welder qualified only to AWS cannot weld on the tank itself. However a welder qualified to Section IX can weld on the structure, etc.

By G.S.Crisi (****)

Date 05-16-2013 19:18

Here in Brazil API 650 and AWWA D100 standards became so popular that API 650 is used not only for petroleum products but for most flammable substances with low vapor pressure. Example: commestible oil.
AWWA D100 is used not only for water but for most non flammable substances with low vapor pressure. Examples: inorganic acids (sulfuric, phosphoric), caustic soda solutions.
Giovanni S. Crisi
Sao Paulo - Brazil