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Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / D 1.8 Seismic Welding
- - By MRWeldSoCal (***) Date 06-29-2013 20:00
How does the welding layout change to compensate for the things we have learned from large earthquakes?
Parent - - By welderbrent (*****) Date 06-30-2013 03:36
Jordan,

Pretty limited information for this inquiry.  Leaves us to do a bit of speculating??  :confused: 

Many things have been improved (?) since some of the quakes and other events, mainly in CA, in the 80's.  A comparison of D1.1 from the early 80's with the current 2010 will show many revisions.  And the work done to bring along D1.8 shows the depths that research went into in order to make a more structurally sound framework.

Pre-heat: Max inter-pass temp, re-entrant corners, Weld Access hole geometry, joint configurations, welding processes that qualify as Pre-Approved, welder testing for qualification to D1.8 Demand Critical welds on CJP's with WAH, max wind velocity lower than standard D1.1, and much more.

Some items that impress me are the new style configurations being engineered for flexibility without failure, such as changes to moment connections with joints such as Sideplate designs; as well as several others. The Sideplate system utilizes a configuration with many fillet welds and fewer CJP's. 

Then, there are simple things like using welds in the flat position instead of doing the bottom flange in the overhead.  Staggering the overlap of the weld passes at the web so as to reduce the stress riser and the potential for trapped slag and other weld discontinuities.  Higher quality cut surfaces than D1.1 and checks with MT. 

Have I headed in the direction you intended? 

Have a Great Day,  Brent
Parent - By Superflux (****) Date 06-30-2013 14:12
In the beginning... there was FEMA 353. Brought to us by the feds after the Northridge earthquake.
I was glad to see the AWS come out with D1.8 and get the feds out of my welding industry.
http://www.lincolnelectric.com/en-us/support/process-and-theory/Documents/c160.pdf

I had the awesome pleasure of dealing with this on a couple of TPI gigs.
Parent - - By MRWeldSoCal (***) Date 07-01-2013 14:28
I mean cant we test welders for earthquake related components? Or is it still something that is such an unknown that we just use computer simulations to give us an idea to how to build critical connections?

I dont have a D1.8, But whats the welder qualification in it that is different from a D1.1?
Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 07-01-2013 16:00
D1.8 adopted some of the welder qualification testing from the FEMA docs. Basically it is the same welding test as in D1.1, but with some added plates in the way to simulate welding through a weld access(rat) hole.
Parent - - By MRWeldSoCal (***) Date 07-01-2013 16:45
ok so D1.8 is more of a retro fitting code?   and the test is a challenge test like a 6GR?
Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 07-01-2013 17:10
Well, not sure what you mean by a retrofiting code, but it does have more stringent criteria than D1.1...ie for weld rod storage, weld wire storage and atmospheric exposure limits for all types of electrodes(wire and rod). Welder qualification testing is a bit different like noted earlier. UT inspection criteria, and UT techinician qualifications are unique to this code. Fabrication techniques, and design have some things that are unique to this code....ie, no tack weld zones that must be masked off to identify the protected areas. Necked down areas where the beam flanges are trimmed down to a specific width to allow for greater flexibilty of the main member. There are lots of other items that must be considered, but these are a few that I remember off the top of my head.
Parent - - By MRWeldSoCal (***) Date 07-01-2013 17:17
Good information... I meant retro fitting as there is many many buildings that were welded with the E70t-4 wire that was the reported problem witht the welds.  now do they go back and cut the welds out and re weld? or is it a Retro fit plating job where they repair the cracked area and leave it when finished?  If I look at a buliding built to D1.1 and one built to D1.8  what structurally am I going to see differently?
Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 07-01-2013 18:10
They also found through studying Northridge that the UT inspection was lacking in that many UT technicians had a tough time inspecting welds with backing bars left in place and missed important reflections. They also found that welding and materials used were subpar and that backing left in place created a stress riaser, they determined that several joints were designed too ridgid and created areas that made the welds fail...there were lots of lessoned learned by studying the effects of that earthquake, and alot of it has changed the way we do things structurally in seismic active areas. If you can get your hands on a copy of D1.8, you can see alot of differences between D1.1 and D1.8 beit inspections, fabrication, or certifications.
Parent - By MRWeldSoCal (***) Date 07-01-2013 18:39
yea, thats one of the things I was wondering.  If you over plate and over weld an area how much more of a problem that can create.  I mean you will never be able to keep a building from swaying side to side. I know down here in So Cal they have some building that are set on giant roller systems so the natural counter balance can attemp to correct it.  They also have a few buildings with weights near the top to try and accomplish the same thing.  Bridges, Buildings, and Power generation stations intrigue me quite a bit, espically what happens when mother nature delivers a heavy blow.

-J
Parent - By MRWeldSoCal (***) Date 07-01-2013 16:51
And what about getting a job in this field?  Are there CWI jobs that are related soley to earthquake welding?
Parent - By MRWeldSoCal (***) Date 07-01-2013 21:59
Maybe Al can chime in too at one point with his .02$

I was doing a lot of reading on the Northridge earthquake and what happened to all the buildings.  It crazy to see the photos of the welded joints and the cracking and twisting.  In some cases it said that nearly every weld joint in the building broke and the building was still standing.  On some of the photos which I found disturbing was the weld broke clean off the tall standing plate where fillert welds were required.   Clean off! As if there was no prep to on plate and it never made fusion past the mill scale.

The article also had a large portion about the fact that Lincolns wire the E70t-4  had a high aluminum content in it and that led to the welds themselves not being elastic enough.  Its hard to believe that they could get away with welding all that and the wire was still such a "poor" choice for this applicaion.  Linclon really had to back pedal to save millions.

It seems to me that you will never be able to fight and earth quake for obvious reasons but even thinking you could build a big building that can withstand one seems impossible as welll.  There is so much twisting and torquing. 

Any more input and stories would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks
-Jordan
Parent - By Len Andersen (***) Date 07-01-2013 14:44
MRWeldSoCal / Ladies and Gentlemen,
      There is more than D1.1 involved. D1.1 is a shop code for the work I am involved in. CalTran has a field welder qualification for bridge etc. work is my believe. Building departments of cities have welder qualification / license. This is stating New York City requirements which I believe are paralleled in the rest of the USA. The best welder will do what is told or be looking for a job. From what I have seen it is CWI etc. - NDT inspection and structural codes - laws that are more consequential. In Mexico building shook and fellow engineer a Mexican asked if I felt that. I did! I hope this is helpful.
                        Sincerely
Len Andersen weld@spemail.org
               914-536-7101   / 212-839-6599     8-4 New York Time , 4042 FAX , Co-worker 6381 / 914-237-7689 (H)
POB 1529 / NYC 10116-1529 ( $1160 per year Caller Box GPO NYC / Most Secure Service At Largest Post Office )
- - By 803056 (*****) Date 07-02-2013 16:37
I'm no expert on seismic design. There isn't a big call for it in New England.

If I recollect from my steel design courses back in the day, tall building are less likely to suffer a collapse than short structures because the tall structure responds more like a radio antenna on a car. It moves and absorbs the energy without suffering failures at the "rigid" moment connections.

Moment connections are designed to act as a plastic hinge when fully loaded, that is the stress exceeds the yield strength and connection permanently deforms, thereby absorbing energy and redistributes the applied load. In the case of a tall building the duration of the earthquake is relatively short, so the building sways, each connection absorbs some energy, the loads result in some strain in the connection, but not enough to exceed the yield strength of the welded connection. In other words, the movement is tolerated without causing any one joint to go into the plastic mode where the deformation is permanent.

In the case of a short building, the connections tend to be more rigid. The short burst of energy must be absorbed by a relative few rigid connections. The amount of strain per joint is higher than in the case of a tall building so the strain causes plastic flow and the deformation is permanent. The design assumption was that the welded joint had sufficient ductility to accommodate the strain. In many case the assumption proved to be false. The joints were too rigid to absorb the strain so something had to fail. A weld that has insufficient ductility and toughness when loaded rapidly, i.e., low toughness, is going to fail.

Early design assumptions did not consider toughness to be an issue. WPSs, when qualified, typically are not tested for toughness unless the weld is subject to loading at low temperature. This isn't the case for structural steel framing that is encased by a temperature controlled the building envelop. Buildings are not typically loaded rapidly, i.e., the governing loads are typically static, i.e., dead loads. The loads change slowly over time, so impacts testing of the raw materials or the weld filler metal are not typically required.

It is the engineer's responsibility to analyze the load conditions a structure will be exposed to. Codes are used as the basis of the engineer's design assumptions. Early codes typically didn't include a lot of information on seismic activity or how a structure responds to earthquakes. As a result, the designs were based on inadequate code requirements that were in effect when the structure was designed and constructed. Apart of the design process, the engineer is responsible to determine the design of the welded connections and the type of filler metal required to provide the properties needed, i.e., tensile strength, yield strength, elongation, and when necessary, toughness. Early designs did not specify toughness requirements as part of the design.

The electrode/filler metal is a key component when designing a connection. The connection is not going to function properly if the engineer does specify the filler requirements properly. It was and still is a problem. Few engineering curriculums adequately address the proper selection of welding processes, weld design, or filler metal selection.

I need to ask the following question: "How many of you, whether you are an inspector or fabricator, see structural drawings where the structural engineers specifies the filler metal as an E70XX?" What does it mean? Is the fabricator bound to using only SMAW with any 70 ksi filler metal? Is it the engineer's intent that any welding process can be used as long as 70 ksi filler metal is used? Is it the engineer's intent that the filler metal must produce low hydrogen deposits? Can any low hydrogen welding process be used? Are the welds required to meet any impact properly limitations? The a lot of questions that should be asked by the detailer and the fabricator, but typically everyone makes an assumption, right or wrong, and proceeds to order material and fabricate the steel, each operating on the premise ignorance is bliss.

Back to the structural damages observed after the Northridge Earthquake; few designers considered the need to include notch toughness as part of their design requirements. No toughness requirements were imposed on the structural steel used and no toughness requirements specified for the filler metals used. It was then and still is today; you get what you pay for. Not all filler metals are created equal. Some filler metal classifications are required to meet toughness requirements and many more have no toughness requirements. Some filler metals must be capable of meeting low hydrogen requirements and many more are not required to meet low hydrogen requirements. If you don’t specify the properties required you aren’t going to get the right “stuff.”

If the designer fails to select a base metal that is required to meet notch toughness requirements and if the designer does not specify low hydrogen weld deposits with notch toughness, why should anyone be surprised to see connections fail when the connection is subjected to impact loads? If the connection is designed with insufficient flexibility when subjected to loads a magnitude or two higher than the assumed loads used by the designer, why should anyone be surprised to see connections fail?

My thoughts are on the subject are:
The connections that failed during the Northridge quake were destined to fail for several of the following reasons, any one of which could have been sufficient to cause a failure.
1) The connections were improperly designed for active seismic areas.
2) The materials of construction were not appropriate if impact toughness was not specified.
3) The filler metals were not specified to meet low hydrogen requirements and they were not specified to meet notch toughness requirements. (I know that FCAW is typically considered to be a low hydrogen welding process, but not all FCAW electrodes are created equal.) Many early FCAW electrodes had the potential of producing as much diffusible hydrogen in the welds a a rutile covered SMAW electrode)
4) The filler metals were only specified to meet minimum tensile strength requirements, i.e., 70 ksi. The filler metal of choice was E70T-4, a self-shielded flux cored electrode that is not required to meet notch toughness requirements.
5) Consistent with the AWS structural welding code, welds are only required to pass visual examination. Per AWS D1.1, volumetric examination, i.e., UT or RT, is only required for certain connections classified as subject to fatigue and tensile loads. Many of the welds that failed were not tested by UT and many failed welds would not have passed visual examination to D1.1 requirements. One has to ask, "Was it typical practice to require full visual inspection by qualified third party inspectors?" I suspect many were not inspected by anyone.

AWS D1.1 is supplemented by AWS D1.8 for designs that are required to meet the seismic requirements of recently adopted building codes. This is a move in the right direction. However, Owners trying to save money, contractors trying to prop up profit margins, and contractors that are ignorant to the requirements will always be around to muck up the works. These are the same people that will hire (or not) the low cost laboratories that are rubber stamp mills that will sign off on anything as long as the invoice is paid.

Rant over. Well not quite. In my opinion, Lincoln got hosed. However, they made the best business move possible. It was strategic, it was beautiful. They agreed to develop a program to "teach" engineers what they needed to know to properly design connections for seismic applications. They used the terms the court settlement to their advantage and it was probably one of the most successful marketing tools ever. 

Now my rant is complete.

Best regards - Al
Parent - By welderbrent (*****) Date 07-02-2013 17:50
"How many of you, whether you are an inspector or fabricator, see structural drawings where the structural engineers specifies the filler metal as an E70XX?"

I for one see this all the time.  And you are correct, most everyone 'assumes' too much as a result.  When dealing with companies with their act in order it is nice to see their process and electrodes have been submitted to the engineer for approval and I can take it from there.  But, often, a little teaching moment arises and you must get them to back track and get approval. 

My current work with Sideplate system seismic detailing changes the electrode class in the GN and other notations at certain locations to cover an E70T-6 or E7XT-9 and others with an E71T-8 and continues with possible uses of SMAW electrodes and gives charpy info and Hydrogen info for whichever electrode the contractor chooses.

They get very precise with their requirements. 

Very good post there Al.  I appreciate all the information.

Have a Great Day,  Brent
Parent - By jwright650 (*****) Date 07-02-2013 18:00
I see it too Al. Unless the job specs call out for charpys and impact figures on filler material and base material, it doesn't get much attention. The AISC auditors have recently been looking for E70XX-LH, E7XT-X or something similar to be placed on the shop dwgs.
- - By Dualie (***) Date 07-03-2013 05:59
here in northern Ca we have a very seismic region to say the least.   With that said I'm going to say that 90%+ of the drawings i get from stamped structural engineers just simply specify 70XX electrodes.    Even on pan decking puddle welds (which is a complete waste of time and effort)

I have a conscience so everything structural in the shop is welded with a D1.8 electrode. E71T-8-H16  OR E71T-1C-H8.   All field welding is done with the T-8 wire.    I do have some PQRs and exceptions for special conditions but usually only after approval from EOR.

Most of the structural failures in northridge were structures that were originally welded with NS-3M
Parent - By eekpod (****) Date 07-09-2013 13:36
I got that pointed out a few years ago during my AISC audit, the drawing title block that NEVER changes because its boiler plate said E70XX but we use FCAW in the shop.  He pointed it out and I had to do a song and dance to wiggle out of it.
Since then I've made it a point to point out to the detailers to put what we actually use in the shop.
- By sankarganesh Date 08-09-2017 04:40
let me know the difference between D1.1 and D1.8 welds? and also DC welds?
Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / D 1.8 Seismic Welding

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