Your take on Snowden

Date 07-06-2013 17:39

I think J. Edgar Hoover once said... "Everybody has an FBI file. It's just that some are thicker than others".

I know for a fact my folder is thicker than some other's.

By PlasmaHead2 (***)

Date 07-06-2013 18:26

He violated his contracts with who ever he was working for, so I'm sure he will have a hard time finding a job if he manages to not get assassinated...
That being said, He warned all of us about how big Big Bro is getting despite painting a bull's eye on his back. So I give him a bit of credit.
As for the charges of treason and being a traitor, I'd be worried if they actually charged him with it. Because he was warning the US populace, I'd be quite a bit worried if they called it treason.
That would make we the people the enemy.... :eek:

As for being a traitor... well he turned on the govt to warn us so again, not to concerning to me.
The rest of the world knew what we were doing, So do our enemies... So he didn't tell them anything they didn't know.
I'm more concerned with the lack of reaction by the population... I get the point of the programs but it sure seems like they could be doing a MUCH better job about it with the resources they have....

Almost a side note to the whole thing was that Prisim project they have running. No one seemed to be too worried that ALL of the major internet players were in on it..."what could they do with all that data? the govt is too ineffective to sort through that...." was what I've heard about that.
Well..... Anyone ever heard of a quantum computer? Or that the Govt has had a fledgling quantum Internet running for about 2 years or so? An Internet requires several computers at the minimum...So its anyone's guess how many are running where. The point is... Snowden described near real time viewing of people typing, anyone want to guess how much computing power that takes? I'm pretty sure they have a LOT more data and far more processing power than anyone knows.

So at the end of it... I think Snowdens just a guy who was repulsed at how big the govt is getting and decided to do his job as an American and warn us all that it is NOT good. The reaction from those in power on all sides has just about confirmed it as well. I thought the govt was supposed to protect whistle blowers, not charge them with treason... Sets a REALLY bad precedent and tone for the future...
*rant off*
Hope everyone had a Happy 4th!

By 803056

Date 07-06-2013 19:38

Welcome to 1984.

The man should be awarded the Nobel Peace Prize.

Sometimes it takes a traitor to set the record straight especially when everyone in Washington lies through their teeth.

How do you know when a politician is lying? His lips are moving.

Al

By HillbillyWelder (**)

Date 07-07-2013 12:26

Lets throw this into the mix, Snowden is a test subject, The gov't tells the people(thru the media) this despicable guy has done this and that(lies and half truths) they then set back and watch public sentiment(hoping to crucify him based on the lies and half truths) to see if the public has bought the bs. If the public bought the bs, we have no opposition to any thing the gov't say's or does, they will spin it how they want and we have a Communist state.

By weldwade (***)

Date 07-09-2013 00:49

It's sad that most of the sheeple in this great nation believe just what they are told by the news...

For me watching the news is just like listening to a political figure talk... 99.999% of it is total BS!

By Smooth Operator (***)

Date 07-09-2013 05:19

One thing I've learned about our government is they don't DISCRIMINATE ...... They F##k everybody from the Indians to your Distinguished Veterans.......Don't matter ......Get in front of them or in there sights and your dog meat......Think you serve and your Doin ' your patriotic/ civil duty that's where you get an education on your government......Seems f/u no matter how you slice it......

By TimGary (****)

Date 07-09-2013 19:48

I keep waiting for the other shoe to drop.
Everything he's released, so far, is common knowledge.
He's just removed a portion the govenments ability to deny, deny, deny...
I keep thinking that there's more to the story that has not yet been broadcasted by the brainwashers, I mean news media.

Tim

By Tyrone

Date 07-10-2013 11:48

Now he's been offered santuary in Venezuela?!
I think wherever he goes, he will be pumped for information (and I don't mean a friendly chat with a cup of tea).
I applaud him for standing up for his beliefs. Doh! I think my Big Brother file just got a little bigger...
Tyrone

By BryonLewis (****)

Date 09-13-2013 01:34

Uncle Sam knows that we know that they're watching us. From what I've read Snowden has released documents showing American allies that Uncle has been watching them too. That's not good for diplomacy.

By Lawrence (*****)

Date 09-13-2013 11:54 Edited 09-13-2013 12:04

As right as you are Bryon... and you know how much it pains me to agree with you.

I'm still amused with the rage these other nations are spewing...

Bryon, do you really think any of these "offended" nations didn't know we were doing this stuff all along?

Would *YOU* be surprised if those other nations were trying or accomplishing the same thing on us as we were on them?

Everybody for years talked about Dick Cheney and his black helecoptors and his secret espionage bunkers... Well Dick's gone now and somebody of President Obama's choosing sits in that chair and directs those black helecopters eh?

It's like the old "Mad Magazene"   Spy vs Spy A joke that nobody takes seriously.... Oh you tapped our phones and compys?   Well let me thump my shoe on a podium a few times and show outrage for the cameras, whilst my own operatives scurry not to be caughts with their pants down as well.

Edit:
Banks, Google, Youtube, and all the major web and finance players are ordered by those crazy "secret courts" to give over our U.S. data as well... They can't complain to the media (even though many of them are media) because even bringing up the topic is considered treason...   It's a very crafty plan that conservatives and libs alike have leveraged and will continue to leverage, even though they were caught with their pants down, red handed, in the cookie jar and every other cliche you care to place on the whole silly mess

By ssbn727 (*****)

Date 09-13-2013 17:03

Yup!

SSDD!!!

In case anyone's wondering what that means: Same Sh!t Different Day!!!

The unique aspect of all this is the fact that Snowden managed to post documentation of what's been going on routinely for decades already, and how we go about actually retrieving the data in question which is IMHO, a cowardly act of treason!!! When the SOB is brought back to face justice, I hope they make him an example for those who think committing this crime will not get one the death penalty as a sentence by hanging him live on TV!!!! :yell:

However, realistically speaking of course; It won't happen because he's a civilian contractor so the best they can do is to throw the book at him and convict him of multiple counts as well as various statutes that will add up to giving him concurrent sentences resulting in a life sentence @ a Supermax prison whereby only 30 minutes of each day is granted for external movement outside of his cell like the one Gotti died in! :yell:

End of Rant! :wink:

Respectfully,
Henry

By 803056

Date 09-13-2013 18:15 Edited 09-13-2013 18:17

Henry, this is one time I have to disagree you.

This government has lost their bearings. They have forgotten the American ideals and what our forefathers fought and died for. They are ashamed of their own actions to the point where they lock the files for fifty years so no one will know of their despicable deeds.

Snowden is a whistle blower, letting the world know the misdeed and illegal activities of this government. By this government, I am not limiting it to Obama’s administration. I am also including the Bush administration. I am ashamed and embarrassed the Obama administration didn’t do anything to stop those activities.

The Patriot Act is anything but a patriotic act. Our elected representatives just reaffirmed the continuation of this despicable act. Shame on the whole lot of them.

Our government is condoning and doing everything I was taught a “bad” government does to its people. The secret courts where the accused isn’t allowed to see the evidence or to question the accuser is in direct violation to our system of justice. It is what every banana republic has done for years and we’ve condemned them for their activities.

Condoning some of the activities this government is undertaking in the name of security is anything but patriotic. Some of the activities being conducted are outright criminal and the perpetrators should be held accountable.

You served this country to ensure our fellow citizens didn’t have to live in fear the government would look into what books they read in the town library. You and many others served to ensure we couldn’t be held without being charged with a crime. You served to ensure you (or your property) couldn’t seized or searched without probable cause. Now you are willingly giving up those rights? You are willingly giving up the right to read what you want to read, the right to have an attorney to represent you, or to have the right to question your accuser or to speak your mind, voice your opinion without being accused of being a criminal? That doesn't sound like the Henry know.

All of this sounds more and more like the stories I heard from a good friend that worked several years in Russia for Lincoln Electric. It was a few short years ago that we wonder aloud how the citizenry would allow their government's actions against them. Now, here we are in the same situation and nary a word is said aloud for fear of being placed on a government watch list.

Snowden is a hero in my eyes. He has the balls to call the government out for the lies they told, their illegal activities, and their misconduct. Did it embarrass this government in the eyes of the world? It certainly did, it should, and this government should clean up their act rather than hiding behind the false claims of being patriots protecting our way of life, or beliefs, and our freedoms.

Al

By jwright650 (*****)

Date 09-13-2013 18:36

Al,
I agree....I think that you are spot on with your summary of where we came from and where we are at now in regards to government intrusion and personal privacy.

By ssbn727 (*****)

Date 09-13-2013 23:46 Edited 09-13-2013 23:55

I too agree with how you put it John...

It's just that I don't agree with this act that this Snowden punk committed and by doing so, he nonetheless committed a very serious crime that has very widespread repercussions
that do directly affect our own national security!!!

If anything, we should vote all of these clowns that represent us out of office along with all of their cronies included because it doesn't take rocket scientist to figure out how corrupt and insane our government has become by these outright criminals with licenses to steal!!! So let's have a Soviet style purge and get rid of them all and replace them with people we all know are not the same...

Who might that be Henry??? Simple! Our most dedicated and still sane combat vets - that's who!!!

Respectfully,
Henry

By jrw159

Date 09-13-2013 18:53

Here Here!!!

By BryonLewis (****)

Date 09-13-2013 22:48

I too agree. I shouldn't have to worry about whether my phone or Internet activity is being monitored no more than I should have to worry about my door getting kicked in by cops because I owe a parking ticket. The fact that this guy's life was changed FOREVER for ratting out the govrnment is amazing. $200k/year sitting on his ass in Hawai'i? Where do I get an application? Maybe a Nobel Prize and a presidential pardon should be I order.

By ssbn727 (*****)

Date 09-13-2013 23:36 Edited 09-14-2013 01:21

Hi Al!

Well, that's fine and dandy so long as none of our own military secrets weren't passed along to the Russians who are acting more and more like the former Soviet Union...

A whistle blower is one thing but, once a person who has certain security clearances and signed legal and binding documents which stipulated that any passing of classified information to any of our adversaries including both Russia and China constitutes high treason and who knows what exactly this Snowden P.O.S. passed along to them so that they could assure him asylum and I'm not talking about just what was reported in the media because the media is his main vehicle in passing himself as a whistleblower when in reality, he performed many treasonous acts against not only our government which I have already known for many years already doesn't play fair towards it's own citizens but, also our country and that last part is the reason the man must hang! Or at least never be able to enjoy whatever was left of is own freedom...

Al, I have known for quite some time now, that our freedoms we once took for granted have eroded to an unacceptable level and yet, we still have more freedom than many of the other countries who spend a lot of time nowadays being critical towards the US even though their own citizens enjoy nowhere near the level of freedom we still share here!!!

But that's not the issue I have with "BLANK..." The problem I have with this fool is that he exposed our primary security tools & systems to the enemy/adversaries so that they could better guard themselves from, and now we must spend oodles and oodles of more money that we really don't have to come up with something to replace them with, and in the mean time exposes ourselves by making us more vulnerable to enhanced cyber attacks that have been formulated by our adversaries by learning from what was exposed to them by this P.O.S.!!!

Yeah I know we don't have any privacy left anymore but that's been going on even before 9-11 and yet now people are getting pissed off about it??? Where were they when the Patriot act was being debated in Congress??? We were too busy to focus on that back then because nobody wanted to question the government since after all, they were protecting us right??? Yeah Right!!!

Look, there are a whole lot of things going on currently as well as in the past that I don't agree with our government but, my beef is the fact that we as a country have become way more vulnerable to cyber warfare because of not only this PUKE!! But also the SOB Assange PUNK that gets his rocks off by embarrassing the US and is also manipulating this PUKE!!! to do even more damage to our own national security in ways that the public will not find out about for quite some time yet, our own intelligence organizations are already scrambling to ward off a multitude of vulnerabilities that weren't present before this RAT PUKE BASTARD decided to ACT as if he was being a whistleblower!!!

My definition of a whistleblower includes someone who is persistent in persuading the Congress and the media of any wrongdoing this government does by appearing in both open as well as closed sessions in both houses of Congress which is something this PUKE knew all too well not even bother with before he and mainly his influential media reporter pushed and exposed us, and was really the one who decided to spill the beans to not only our adversaries but also our own allies who all of a sudden express outrage because of what our government was doing to them... Give me a break!!! They have been doing the same to us for many years now - in fact, for DECADES for crying out loud!!! And they express outrage??? IMHO, they're full of it and they know it!!!

To hell with this government but, do not put my country in a more vulnerable position for our enemies/adversaries to take advantage of by giving away some of our secrets just to prove a point!!! That's what I call a selfish, vindictive,treasonous, SCUMBAG!!! And his buddy, Assange is his puppetmaster just salivating to expose us some more by pretending that he' feeling a sense of solidarity with this Snowden PUNK!!! Shoot!!! They're both PUKE PUNK RATS in my book!!!

He violated one of my most respected principles which is this: One must not put our country in a position of vulnerability because of the actions they took to expose our secrets for our enemies/adversaries to take advantage of, and violating the very oath they took by swearing that they would never do such an act especially if the oath they took is clearly documented. The PUKE violated that principle knowingly, and without any concern about what repercussion would occur afterwards! Guilty as CHARGED!!!

Sorry Al, but I must continue to disagree with you on this and I wish I wasn't but I stand firm behind my principles which I adopted a long time ago as a member of our armed forces and who has been informed by friends still in the service of our country that have first hand knowledge of to what extent we have been exposed because of the actions taken by this P.O.S. PUKE!!! However, we can at least agree that we can disagree and yet at least from this end still be friends with each other and respect each others opinion.

Respectfully,
Henry

By 46.00

Date 09-14-2013 00:06

Wow Hank, I guess you don't like this Snowden guy then? :confused:

By Tommyjoking (****)

Date 09-19-2013 00:55

Thanks Henry, you saved me a lot of typing.

By Superflux (****)

Date 09-14-2013 17:50 Edited 09-14-2013 17:57

Believe it or not, being a Snitch is encouraged when employed as a DoD Contractor!
The real issues are
A) He signed a contract!
B) Anyone who has worn the uniform or has been in a War Zone, WILL be a witness to things that you had just better take to the grave with you.

Attachment: BeaRatFink.JPG (0B)

By lo-hi

Date 09-15-2013 02:16 Edited 09-15-2013 02:29

I guess that at some point when it comes to being ether loyal to authority or to your country it lays in the individual to decide. I might not condone what he did but, how did he get the ability and info without some breach of security in the first place. Don't forget Ollie North and that whole scandal. It was years ago, but not much has changed. People believe they are doing the right thing and then they become disappointed with themselves or are looking at being a scapegoat. It falls apart from there.

By 803056

Date 09-18-2013 16:51 Edited 09-18-2013 17:03

Snakes protecting snakes.

Activities that are hidden from view are usually unethical, immoral, and/or illegal.

I for one do not believe our government should adopt the operating principles of the Mafia or Costra Nostra.

When it becomes necessary to pass secret laws to protect politicians and the activities of government agencies, there is something horribly wrong with that government.

There is need for secrecy, there is a need to collect information about the activities of perceived adversaries, but those activities should be well defined and with appropriate oversight. The activities should be legal activities that do not trample the rights and expectation for personal privacy of the every citizens unless there is reason to believe that citizen is involved in illegal activities. In our justice system there has to be reasonable cause to search, seize, or to even investigate the activities of a citizen. What was revealed by Mr. Snowden was this government's attempt to side step many of the legal protections we as citizens have.

The constitution says we are protected against unreasonable search or seizure. That right has recently been upheld by the courts in New York in regards to the “stop and frisk” policies instituted by the NYC police. The police were order to stop their practice based on several fundamental principles.

The wholesale collection of phone records, e-mail, or letters sent through the USPS is nothing short of illegal searches of private communication. That’s what we expect of an authoritarian government like Russia or China. It isn’t what I expect from our American government.

The activities of this government and the people involved got a well-deserved black eye. Obama and the boys were caught in a circle jerk with their penises in hand and were embarrassed because they thought they had hidden themselves in the closet where they would not be caught.

Brazil just turned down an invitation to a State Dinner at the White House. Bully for the Brazilians. I applaud them for having the balls to tell Obama and the boys to go FxxK themselves.

Al

By lo-hi

Date 09-19-2013 01:18

I don't believe the problem started with this administration or the ones before. There is always profit in war. Security for a nation does not come from alienating its neighbors or selling its natural resources. A business or organization cannot accomplish this without some kind distraction. It is hard for the everyday citizen to absorb the drama that unfolds and understand how it will effect them in ten or twenty years. Politicians and the mega rich want to keep it that way. I do what I can to help my local community and show anybody that wants to learn about welding as much as I can. We still live in a great country and with a little work it will last a while.

By Tommyjoking (****)

Date 09-19-2013 01:33

Thank you as well Gerald.

By lo-hi

Date 09-19-2013 01:51

One of my doses of reality was when Clinton got the supreme court to allow a president to lie under oath and walk away. At least Nixon had to resign. I don't really care about the political stuff or what has happened behind closed doors in the white house. When it becomes a mockery of our system and is allowed to continue over and over then something needs to change. Not sure of the answer or what to do but I am watching the outcome. If Paul Revere had been caught they would have shot him .

By Lawrence (*****)

Date 09-19-2013 11:40

By those definitions of "traitor"

So was:

John Adams

Ben Franklin

George Washington

Thomas Jefferson (who I don't care for)

I don't disagree with your terms at all.... However, We have a Nation (USA) that is doing some things behind a curtain of secrecy that they have made a covenant by treaty, by law and by constitution not to do. Things like spying on their most supportive Allies and nations with whom we have treaties.
America has dishonored itself along these lines... More importantly, American government has betrayed its own population by creating secret courts to prey on citizens, people groups and corperations, by spying and stealing information that is strictly prohibited by the constitution and law.

So this Snowden guy shined a light on the activities in the above paragraph.... That indeed lables him as a trator by your definition...

But Gerald, what is the right thing to do when your government becomes tyrannical and tells you that if you shine the light of truth on the tyrany that you are a trator and will be hounded, punished or eliminated?

By 803056

Date 09-19-2013 14:39

Ditto.

By CWI555

Date 09-19-2013 19:01

Every government employee found by trial to have allowed or facilitated this behavior knowingly, should be lined up with Snowden against the execution wall and shot.

I've already answered that question

By Lawrence (*****)

Date 09-19-2013 20:38

Hitler shot a lot of guys who finally figured out what he was up to.

I know I know... Hitler is so overused.

Yet he was one bad dude... Most Germans would not have agreed with what he was doing secretly....

Those who objected, many of them government workers, were lined up against the execution wall and shot.

I know I know.. You already gave your answer

I just like to hear myself type.

By CWI555

Date 09-19-2013 19:39

A traitor is a traitor. The answer is simple and as noted, already given. When the founding fathers and their peers had enough, they took up arms.
What to do with a traitor has numerous historical precedences.

The real question that should be asked, is this. Is this still the land and country those founding fathers forged in the 1700's? If any part of that answer is negative, then all bets are off.
It is my opinion that most in this country suffer a severe case of paradigm paralysis. They think they are in that country from days gone by but they are not. Many groups focus on specific constitutional amendments without consideration to how those amendments work with each other. Each of these groups never saying a word when a specific group is attacked because it didn't affect them directly. There was a guy by the name of Martin Niemoller that said it best;

First they came for the Communists,
and I didn’t speak up,
because I wasn’t a Communist.
Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn’t speak up,
because I wasn’t a Jew.
Then they came for the Catholics,
and I didn’t speak up,
because I was a Protestant.
Then they came for me,
and by that time there was no one
left to speak up for me.

That how our constitution is being systematically shredded.

Patrick Henry recognized that.

He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression;
for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself.

*Dissertation on First Principles of Government, December 23, 1791

Go to your local mall, or walmart. Watch the people, and ask yourself how many of them think, act, and believe the same things the founding fathers did. How many of them will cry about the rights they are worried about, all the while throwing their countrymen under the proverbial bus. Then ask yourself if this is still America.

By Lawrence (*****)

Date 09-19-2013 20:34

First they came for American bank records, the secret court told the banks that if they spoke out about the unconstitutional theft of citizens personal records they would be treated as traitors.
Johnny America didn't speak up because he wasn't a banker or a traitor

Next they came for American personal computers, the secret court told the web hosts that if they complained about private information from the citizens being sifted by the CIA and FBI they would be tried as trators
Johnny America didn't speak up because he wasn't a web host or a traitor

While they were recording American citizens personal information and banking data, they were also stealing secrets from their closest international friends, those with whom they said they would protect, treaties and resolutions signed with great pomp were trampled under, with permission given by secret courts.
Johnny America didn't speak up because he wasn't a foreigner or a traitor

Snowden spoke up...... Some suggest he should be lined up and shot with enemies of America.

Do you really think the Government should be blindly obeyed up to the very moment it becomes necessary to overthrow it by force?

Do you really think that the American Founders didn't try every reasonable, political and nonviolent way to deal with England before they took up arms?

Every founder you quote, desperatly wanted to remain an Englishman, most especially George Washington. They tried very hard for most of their lives for this outcome before independence became their only choice to remain alive, because of what they had said about the government.... Anybody who has opened a biography of a founder knows this.

Cut and dried indeed

.
.

By CWI555

Date 09-19-2013 20:43

"Do you really think the Government should be blindly obeyed up to the very moment it becomes necessary to overthrow it by force?

Do you really think that the American Founders didn't try every reasonable, political and nonviolent way to deal with England before they took up arms?"

You make statements I never eluded to, and put words in my mouth. Those are your assumptions not mine.

To answer your thoughts, no to question 1, and no to question 2.

By ssbn727 (*****)

Date 09-20-2013 07:28 Edited 09-20-2013 07:34

Hi Gerald,

When you wrote this: "The worst part about this is, it's been known for decades, but many who spoke up were branded crazy." I thought: "Well I'm glad there's some other folks besides myself that acknowledges that fact."

That movie with Mel Gibson where he was thought to be crazy because of all the conspiracy theory stuff he had witnessed and forced him to live the life of a paranoid recluse - protecting himself from being spied on with all sorts of methods where some of what was considered by many to be insane behavior did prevent some methods of spying by incorporating strange shielding and compartmentalizing his foods and liquids as well as his medicines and personal hygiene items to prevent poisoning, etc...

I got the message of that picture when it first came out many moons ago and I already knew what the NSA and other agencies were doing among it's citizenry for years but, if I were to even hint that this was going on, more than likely I would have been ridiculed r labeled as being crazy...

And the reality is that we have been spying on England as well as France and a host of other allies ever since the days of the OSS and they have done the same to us for just as long if not longer than the end of WWII...

Israel spies on us all the time and they have been doing so for decades just as we have tried to do the same with them also so, I don't know why everyone is in such an uproar about our constitutional rights being trampled when that fact has been going on for decades if not a century or more by various governmental agencies...

It's a matter of survival to know what the other country is doing especially during the times of shifting alliances and the reality of these other countries having weapons of mass destruction and this has been going on for decades now...

And the Patriot Act which was overwhelmingly passed by both houses of congress and debated by the media prior to it's passage and becoming the law of the land once George Junior signed the bill... Where was all the outrage then about what has been recently realized when all of the potential harm of eliminating our freedom and constitutional rights were being debated in clear view for the public to digest back then??? It's almost as if the outrage now that's being expressed is a sort of delayed reaction to the pain one experiences when a bone is broken or a biopsy is performed and the pain isn't felt until the meds wear off!!! And yet all along they knew it was coming but were nonetheless startled when they did experience the pain! :eek:

It's pretty much cut and dry that when you sign a document that specifically explains the consequences of sharing classified information with unauthorized entities or persons that you will then be accountable for the criminal act and will be punished for committing such an act of TREASON! In this circumstance, it was multiple acts of treason.
Wake up everybody!!! This isn't something new that's been exposed for what it is regarding our constitutional rights or our freedoms or lack there of. It is what it is! :eek:

When the genie was let out of the bottle many moons ago, our freedoms and our way of life changed forever because of all these various types of WMD's which constantly scare the crap out of the leaders of all of the countries that have them and it results in such behavior of total mistrust towards everyone including their own population...
So, until they are universally eliminated, things will not change a bit!

Respectfully,
Henry

By Superflux (****)

Date 10-21-2013 11:02

What ever your personal take on Eric, our friends and neighbors aren't too happy.
I mean, the Sakharov Prize? Whew, That is huge!
But his Arch Nemesis, Obama already has a Nobel trophy on his mantle... and for what? I never did figure out (nor research) how/why he got the NPP.
I think a cage match between the two of them is in order.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-24347225
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-24605390
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-24607880