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Up Topic Welding Industry / ASME Codes / PQR
- - By newinsp (**) Date 07-09-2013 15:12
This may be jumping the gun here, but I just started on another (3rd so far) code:  ASME IX. 

Reading the contents of the PQR where it says, "It is not intended that the full range or the extreme of a given range of variables to be used in production be used during qualification unless required due to a specific essential or, when required, supplementary essential variable".

So then I flip to QW-253 for variables for SMAW and find that current and polarity are not an essential variable.  WOW.  It's like stepping into the Wild Wild West. 

So....do a PQR for SMAW at 95 amps and write the WPS for 60 to 120, just because that's what we need for production? 

On page 19, so far.
Parent - - By js55 (*****) Date 07-09-2013 20:22
In answer, yes. You can qualify at 95 and utilize 60 to 120.
If you are running hot enough to achieve good fusion without slag and cold enough to maintain a stable arc, you will not vary the strength or ductility properties to an extent greater than a statistical scatter band.
Remember the ASME qual is for the procedure and material properties NOT welding skill.
Notice when you go to supplementary, it now matters because it will effect impacts to a significant degree.
Parent - By newinsp (**) Date 07-10-2013 13:34
Thanks js55.  This Code is going to take some getting used to.
- - By 803056 (*****) Date 07-10-2013 02:13 Edited 07-10-2013 02:18
Remember, it is possible and often the case that you can write a WPS that meets all the requirements of ASME Section IX that is entirely impossible to use and still be "code compliant."

ASME does not tell the manufacturer "how to do anything." It assumes the individual tasked with the responsibility of writing the WPS is technically competent. As such, Section lists no limitations for the welding parameters as found in AWS structural welding codes.

There is no requirement in ASME that an individual has to be present to witness the welding of the test coupon or to record the welding parameters, i.e., voltage, wire feed speed, travel speed, etc., on the PQR. he exceptin is when qualifying the WPS for notch toughness, in which case heat input is a essential variable and must be recorded on the PQR.

What filler metal should you use with such and such base metal, it ain't in Section IX.

Is notch toughness required? Beats me, it isn't addressed by Section IX. You need to go to the construction code to find out. That means, you need to know and review which construction code will be used to design and fabricate the component.

If you are venturing into the wonderful world of ASME you better know what you are doing, "cus you ain't getting no help from Section IX."

Best regards - Al
Parent - By newinsp (**) Date 07-10-2013 14:00
Writing an impossible WPS, THAT is scary. 

I'm taking an online course from ASME, after researching for a course like this for days.  I saw the name of one of the ASME classroom instructors. I read his comments on here all the time. :lol: Thanks. 

I read a thread on here a while back about the manufacturer not being able to contract out qualification and read that paragraph in the Code yesterday.  Interesting, to say the least. 

Learning to navigate construction code is going to be a challenge for sure.  Thought that API would have been more difficult than ASME, may have thought wrong. 

Best,

Rick
Parent - - By qcrobert (***) Date 07-11-2013 15:46
Al,
You forgot to mention what ASME stands for...:eek:

QCRobert
Parent - By jwright650 (*****) Date 07-11-2013 15:54
Yes...he did forget!...LMBO :grin:
Parent - - By js55 (*****) Date 07-11-2013 21:55
Al,
Asking Section IX to help you with filler metals or charpy tests is like asking the Constitution to tell you how to bake butter bisquits. It may be something you need but that isn't what its for.
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 07-11-2013 22:08
You know it and I know it, but there are a lot of people that spend countless hours looking for it.

Best regards - Al
Parent - By js55 (*****) Date 07-12-2013 21:01
Al,
When I find something I know that you don't I will let you know. I haven't found it yet. But i'll still bounce stuff off of you.
- - By 803056 (*****) Date 07-11-2013 16:35
I just figured that is common knowledge and need not be mentioned.

It is like Halloween; there is no need to warn the “Trick or Treater” of witches and goblins. It is simply understood. Or when whitewater rafting; it is more entertaining for the rest of us to watch the unwary or inexperienced to flounder around for a while before tossing in the life preserver.

Best regards - Al
Parent - - By js55 (*****) Date 07-11-2013 22:11
A couple of other things. There is no requirement in D1.1 for volumetric examination except for tranverse cyclic stresses (one paragraph), there is in ASME. There are no requirements for MT/PT in D1.1, there is in ASME. There are no requirements for CVN's in D1.1.There is in ASME. Even though Article 6 is loaded with info on how to do it. It doesn't make you do it. In fact, the one examination it does make you do (VT) is the one they talk about the least in Article 6.
Its all about different ways of approaching things.

And as for filler metals, even though D1.1 has a moderately extensive table of materials they are all just variations of carbon steel for the most part. Whereas ASME deals with perhaps 1000's and 1000's of alloys. Many alloys are of a nature that fillers have not even be developed for them. Anybody ever seen 9% Ni filler?
Covering filler metals in ASME as AWS does would require a volume the size of the library of congress. Yup, I wanna have to pay for that one.

And API is only easier if you are using it as a pipeline standard. Try adapting it to a shop environment and following it to the letter. Its expensive, and a nightmare.
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 07-12-2013 01:52
Good points.

Al
Parent - - By js55 (*****) Date 07-12-2013 21:08
One more comment on the varying systems. For the most part, they both work.
We do not see buildings just collapsing in on people if the D1 codes are followed. Barring a catastrophic earthquake.
And it is extremely rare for stuff to just blow up or failing if the ASME codes are followed. Barring tsunami's or some such event.
Both systems work. And work well. And both governing committee members take very seriously the safety of people.
But they both rely upon the professionalism and honesty of those using the codes. Otherwise, it doesn't matter what rules you put in place.
Parent - By 803056 (*****) Date 07-12-2013 21:30 Edited 07-15-2013 11:05
Amen to that. It is usually a confluence of minor problems or oversights that cause failures to occur.

The trouble begins when someone that doesn't know is to proud to ask.

All the codes make the assumption that the individual responsible for the design understands how to analyze the problem, calculate loads, and how to determine the size of members, components, etc. There is also an assumption that the individual that is determining the welding requirements understand welding and the technology associated with it. No code is written with the backyard mechanic or the  damn fool in mind.

Let's face it, it isn't any fun if you don't stir the mud up once in a while.

Best regards - Al
Up Topic Welding Industry / ASME Codes / PQR

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