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Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / ferrous vs. non ferrous
- - By lwtfnd Date 07-11-2013 14:31
What is it about non-ferrous materials that require you to use an inert gas?
Why are reactive gases needed to weld ferrous metals?
Does it come down to the molecular level?
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 07-11-2013 17:39 Edited 07-11-2013 22:08
It has to do with surface tension of the molten weld pool and the resulting shape of the weld.

Al
Parent - By MMyers (**) Date 07-11-2013 21:09
I was thinking more process stability and oxidization.  GMAW likes active gases, GTAW largely does not, steel can tolerate active gasses, SS/Ni/Ti largely cannot (case specific obviously since I've lumped three completely different materials together).
Parent - - By Metarinka (****) Date 07-12-2013 02:30
The basic answer is ionization potential: Gases with a high ionization potential (helium, Oxygen, CO2) tend to be great at lowering the surface tension and increasing the arc temperature. They tend to give you much a narrower deeper weld bead with the same exact parameters as argon.

However reactive gases like oxygen and CO2 tend to bind to alloying elements or oxidize the base material. For carbon steel CO2 is generally find because it's not terribly oxidizing and carbon pickup in carbon steels is generally not a problem. For this reason it should never be used for stainless steels as it leads to carbide precipitation.

Now as far as more exotic metals especially corrosion resistant ones like inconels, titanium and zirconium. They are extremely reactive, which means they will gladly suck up any last bit of oxygen and carbon and then become extremely brittle or crack.  At the least they will strip out alloying elements and ruin mechanical properties.

All that being said, Helium or a mixture of helium and argon can be used just fine on carbon steels, but most don't do it for the cost.

flux core wire is a different beast altogether and tends to "require" CO2
Parent - - By cddolan74 (**) Date 07-12-2013 12:38
"For carbon steel CO2 is generally find because it's not terribly oxidizing and carbon pickup in carbon steels is generally not a problem. For this reason it should never be used for stainless steels as it leads to carbide precipitation".

Metarinka,
Are you speaking GTAW specific on this comment? Knowing there are several different percentages of these reactive gases used with argon on SS for GMAW process, I am trying to understand what you mean.
thanks
chris
Parent - - By Metarinka (****) Date 07-12-2013 15:41
Oops you are right, the magic number is generally never over 5% for 300 series SS,  this is all off memory.

I'm not a huge fan of CO2 for GMAW
Parent - - By js55 (*****) Date 07-12-2013 21:11
The japanese are.
Parent - By electrode (***) Date 07-13-2013 11:41
So well said.
- - By 803056 (*****) Date 07-11-2013 22:10
The question lacked detail, so I hesitated going into a detailed discussion on the subject.

No welding process was listed, so the answer cannot be specific.

Al
Parent - - By 357max (***) Date 07-11-2013 22:16
A good test is worth more than a thousand opinions. Weld carbon steel with GMAW using 100% Argon note and record results then use a mix of Argon and a reactive gas, CO2 or O2. Let us know the result.
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 07-12-2013 01:51 Edited 07-12-2013 13:02
Excellent choice of parameters.

Think about it for a second or two. What gas is produced by the decomposition of the flux covering of a SMAW electrode in the arc?

Al
Parent - By 357max (***) Date 07-12-2013 22:22
Spot On, Welding shielding gas has not evolved much from a coal fire forge weld, to OAW to SMAW especially with the 4510 center grip to the XX10s of today and others to shielding of GMAW & FCAW both gas & self shielded.
Parent - By Kix (****) Date 07-18-2013 17:42
And because that question lacked so much detail it sounded as if it came right out of an open book essay question test.  ;-)
Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / ferrous vs. non ferrous

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