What type of welding rod to use?

Date 08-09-2013 16:17

rebar is a funny animal when it comes to welding....I won't go into all of the techy stuff but you need to know the grade of rebar and the tubing to get an informative reply to your question.

By welderbrent (*****)

Date 08-09-2013 18:09

WELCOME TO THE AWS WELDING FORUM!!

John is correct. Mainly there are two divisions to look for: 'weldable' rebar, and everything else. It's not that the rest are not 'weldable', just harder to do successfully.

Just look over your pieces of rebar for some identification numbers/letters. If there is a 'W' there, (if you can only find one with an 'M', turn it over :smile:

) you should be in the 'weldable' category.

The grade of your tubing I would guess is just stock tube steel? Nothing special? So, if you are not doing this to a code and don't need to get really picky with carbon equivelancy and other code info then you should be good to go with either 7018 or 8018. 8018 is generally 'safer' with the rebar but you can undermatch going with the one that is good on the tubing which will be 7018. You probably have some 7018 in stock.

Have a Great Day, Brent

By Cumminsguy71 (*****)

Date 08-09-2013 21:32

I don't weld rebar, well, not out on real jobs. Building some garbage in the shop, making something on the "farm" that does not need to be structurally sound, mag tested, x rayed, microscopically examined then I weld it with a 7018....6010.....and forget about it. Yeah, I roll with the Farm Code now and again.

Our technical team which replied above raises good points if you are looking to have something that won't fly apart on you. Something that may be supporting a structure or thing that might come crashing down on your head and kill you. I've used rebar laying around here for "Farm Use" and just welded it together and rolled on with it. From the way you talk in your post I am assuming your not building, well, a building! LoL! If I had to have something I would just buy a piece of round bar from the steel supplier for $20 and forget the rebar all together.

That's my thought on the matter.

By welderbrent (*****)

Date 08-10-2013 02:23

C'mon now Shaun. I cut a lot of corners already. I didn't say anything about getting MTR's, taking a D1.4 welding test and qualifying, and many other things.

I gave the guy an easy shortcut to make sure he had the easiest rebar for the average guy to 'just stick together'.

But, you are correct, at least it is far less likely to come crashing down because a major mistake was made. I also went by the 'assumption' that the OP was not doing anything really technical nor in need of public safety concerns.

At least with some simple checking and precautions you can have a good idea of what you are getting into and go into with your eyes open.

One more thing though, if it does not have the 'W' for weldable rebar, you will want to use at least a 9018 electrode with a fair amount of pre-heat. Beyond that, just hire someone who knows what they are doing.

Have a Great Day, Brent

By Tommyjoking (****)

Date 08-11-2013 02:06

7018 will stick the "non weldable" rebar.....I would not buy a higher alloy rod just for something like this....harder to find, definitely harder to get in small quantity and more expensive to boot. Most folks don't have 9018 laying around in the garage Brent.

By Cumminsguy71 (*****)

Date 08-11-2013 13:54

HE LIVES!!!!! PRAISE ALA!! Ooopps... I mean Jesus!! He's alive! Welcome back Tommy!!

By Cumminsguy71 (*****)

Date 08-11-2013 13:53

I know Brent. I wasn't taking a jab at you. :lol:

Just was not sure of the OP's knowledge on "Farm Code" so threw the deep probing inspection jargon in.

I just wanted to basically point out that if he was welding some rebar together to make a rack for his four wheeler or some farm jig that just running with a 7018 would be sufficient.

Not knowing the back story from the Op though we are taking 500 meter pop shots at lightning bugs.....in the dark when we reply.

By welderbrent (*****)

Date 08-11-2013 16:13

Absolutely, we don't have a lot of info here for sure. Once again we are left to assume and yet offer advice. Thus, Tommy, I know it will, but again, if there is something even slightly safety about this, my info was strictly, MY ADVICE for the welding of the other rebars. Even then it is not always accurate. And even before I got heavy into welding, my dad had 9018 laying around at the farm in OR back in the 60's. The odds, pretty slim. But you don't know, he might have some.

I did not go 'overboard' recommending strictly from the code. But, I felt it critical to at least offer sound advice. Shoot, you can weld it with 6010 or 6011 too but most of us wouldn't.

Anyway, and I agree that for many uses around home 7018 is 'adequate'. That may not make it the best depending upon the rebar.

I have seen too many things made from rebar because it is so cheap compared to round bar and other steels that it is scary. Especially when you look at the usage of the product, the electrodes used to do it, and the quality (more properly the lack thereof) of the finished product.

Have a Great Day, Brent

By Sourdough (****)

Date 08-16-2013 11:57

I weld rebar all the time on structural jobs. The concrete crew has to have something to tie rebar to before they pour on the deck pan. 7018 is all that is allowed, to be d1.1 compliant.

By welderbrent (*****)

Date 08-16-2013 14:17

Sourdough,

Really!! Rebar isn't even listed in D1.1. It is ONLY covered in D1.4. AND, you need to run its' CE to make certain of electrode but many times weldable rebar to weldable rebar will be equivalent to 8018 requirements and when not it is borderline. The safety net is that you can undermatch and especially when you are going from rebar to A36 Flatbar, angle, channel, or a 992 WF all you will need is a 7018.

But, again, from the 'appearance' of this posters usage he is probably more than safe with 7018. HOWEVER, he doesn't really give us enough to go from to make that a definitive statement.

Have a Great Day, Brent

By Johnyutah (**)

Date 08-16-2013 18:12

I am certain that sourdough was welding DBA bars or deformed bar anchors. Looks almost like rebar and most guys don't know the difference sadly neither do the inspectors.

By Sourdough (****)

Date 08-17-2013 04:02

I always wonder why welders can't figure out the way they can do it, instead of all the reasons they can't. For years I have watched fellow hands spend all day figuring the various reasons why they can't do it.

This country is one bad job away from bankruptcy.

By Sourdough (****)

Date 08-17-2013 03:57 Edited 08-17-2013 04:05

I'll make sure and tell my inspector. The rebar that is welded on 100% of structural jobs that receive concrete is part of the blueprints that are d1.1 specific. If I'm wrong for thinking that this critical welding of rebar is not part of a structural job that is d1.1 compliant, I will let Doug know that you don't think it should be inspected. My apologies.

I just read again the response to my reply. I'm still confused.

By welderbrent (*****)

Date 08-17-2013 14:37

Nobody said anything about it not being inspected! And, it will be inspected on jobs that are worked to D1.1. It just won't be welded or inspected to D1.1 as a stand alone code. It will incorporate D1.4 which is the only code to include specs on rebar.

Questions:
1) Are you certified to D1.4 for rebar? If not, everything you have ever done on rebar is a code violation. And, I'll bet that D1.4 will be listed in the General Notes and Structural Notes under the various concrete sections as well as in the 500 page Job Specifications document that is supposed to be in the job office with the approved for construction plans.
2) Are you welding 'Weldable' Rebar? Or do your statements about 100% only cover part of the work being done?
3) Do you know the carbon equivalency of any of the rebar you have welded on?
4) How have you, or your inspector, concluded that 7018 is always the correct and only choice for rebar?
5) Do either one of you even have a copy of D1.4?
6) Where in D1.1 do you find any reference to rebar to say that your welding of rebar is incuded in it's context to say that your job is D1.1 "specific"? (whatever that means, seeing as how most jobs I have been on will include IBC 2006 and AISC as other codes/specifications that are to be adhered to at the least, and often D1.3 and D1.4 as well for the work within their scope. Things such as rebar and decking, both of which are not covered by D1.1 but need certifications and inspections)

Have a Great Day, Brent

By CWI7611 (**)

Date 08-16-2013 23:34

A lot of good thought put into the discussions above. One piece of advice I would add is just don't use any old XX18 laying around the shop. If it has been stored properly, in an oven, that's a different story. If you are planning on just a small amount of welding at a time I would buy the XX18 electrode as I needed them. They are available in small quantities most of the time. XX18 electrodes will really soak up moisture if not stored properly which will be deposited in the weld metal and can and usually does cause weld failure.

Just use dry electrode. All the above information is great but treat the filler metal properly.

By dbigkahunna (****)

Date 08-19-2013 22:34

Get you some 6011 and some 6013. You can get these at most farm supply places. Just get the 1/8 diameter. The 6011 will stick it together. When it looks good, give it a "Whack" on the concrete. If it needs to look good use the 6013. You can get off in the weeds real quick here.
Remember, all it has to do is hold.
You will need to do a little practice, or not, to get where the rod does not stick too often. If you are past that and can do a fairly decent bead, then the 6011 will work just fine.
Play with the 6013 and if you have some, try out the 7018. But if you are in the beginner range, don't dink with the 7018. If you only want one rod to have around just get the 6011. It will weld all carbon to carbon steels. And you can weld the re-bar to the square tubing. It is the Farm Code approved preferred rod for all CS to CS welding procedures.

By Sourdough (****)

Date 08-26-2013 14:51

Heh heh heh heh....I gotta stop wasting my time here. Everyday I go to work in the field and do work. There's always someone here that's willing to find all the reasons they can't do something instead of finding the reasons they can.

Maybe I oughta just regress into the witty journalist I used to be on this forum, and start making some of the blowhards here look really stupid...

I get the idea there are some really miserable people on this forum.