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Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / cast iron
- - By lo-hi (**) Date 08-23-2013 13:45
Had  somebody bring in a broken cast iron wheel of off an old Case tractor. Over the years I have settled into using mg 289 exclusively  on ****ty old cast. Called the lws and after searching the local branch's found 3 pounds at over 100 dollars a pound. Wondering what the choice of rod is for other welders on cast and should I tell them  that I'm just fixing a wheel and I don't need the shaft. Airgas kind of has a monopoly in this area so its tough to comparison shop.
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 08-23-2013 15:45
I always had the best result when repairing cast iron with oxyacetylene and cast iron rod. Some of the repairs have been in use for 30 plus years.

Al
Parent - - By lo-hi (**) Date 08-23-2013 16:57
Hello Al   I have repaired smaller parts with gas welding and seen some larger castings done with oxy act.  Brazing is also workable in the right situation. The larger repairs had longer pre heat and post heat requirement's. We used a brick pit and charcoal, lighting it off at the end of our shift and covering it all with insulated blankets. Come in early the next day, make the repair and repeat the process for post heat. This wheel weighs about 100 to 150 pounds and the break is about 11  inches long by 3 to 4 wide. Sick welding is a little less labor intensive but becoming way more expensive. My favorite repair for smaller pieces is my little spray welder.  Perley
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 08-23-2013 18:10
I have used the same for preheating large parts and to ensure slow uniform cooling.

My wife used to get quite upset when I would preheat smaller casting in the kitchen oven. No sense of humor when it comes to her kitchen.

Best regards - Al
Parent - By cddolan74 (**) Date 08-23-2013 18:53
I used to be able to bring my bigger cast part in a bakery oven, that eliminated lots of problems for me at the time
Parent - - By welderbrent (*****) Date 08-23-2013 20:24
I have had reasonably good results with either Nickel 99 or Stainless 309.  Pre-heat evenly all around not just in the area of the repair.  I like your pre-heat process as stated above.  Really gives it a soak/cleanse time through the whole part. 

But, I am curious.  Cast iron wheel?  Even on an older one...are you sure cast steel or forged steel?  Cast iron is terribly fragile to use for a tractor wheel.

Having said that, Nickel 99 and 309 work well on them also.  So you would be covered regardless of the material.

Have a Great Day,  Brent
Parent - - By lo-hi (**) Date 08-23-2013 22:51
I know that it sounds odd that it would be cast iron. Most wheels are stamped steel similar to automotive design, the rears being two piece and the front just a wheel. The lip were the tire seats is at least 1/2 to 5/8 thick and the body is 2 1/2 inches thick where the wheel accepts the tire. The wheel is about 5" by 16. The guy that brought it said they made them to serve as front weights on the tractor. I did a spark test and they were almost like cast steel. The spark was deep red but I thought I saw a small sparkle at the end.  I would think he could find a steel wheel to fit and will go that route when he gets the estimate.  Perley
Parent - - By FixaLinc (****) Date 08-24-2013 02:46
Cast iron center piece for rear axle or cast center for front and steel rims bolts onto either how most were made.  Case had some older ones all one piece cast too.  They are cast iron not forged.  You have different grades of cast iron remember your spark test told you that.  It's not the same cast as a manifold.  Stuff back then came from new quality virgin materials not rusty junk melted down in china.  Depends on where broke cracked or worn.  Like you said your spray torch best way to build up worn seal area or such on a wheel.  Must be a rare wheel otherwise would think they could find another used one in salvage yard for what will spend welding one but those parts are harder to find too now with scrap prices being up.  Have used square cast iron rod with torch and borax for flux or buy can of cast flux usually orange from Harris or have used nickel rod with success or brass brazing just depends on what it is. 

Salvage parts, Ag yards & dealers

http://www.adeptr.com/agyards.htm
Parent - - By lo-hi (**) Date 08-26-2013 12:58
Its really amazing all the different types of cast iron, cast steel and ductile iron out there that at some point needs to be welded for some reason or another. I worked at a foundry that made small tool parts. We cut down the giant coal-coke smelter tower. They had upgraded to electric decades ago, basically big soup pots that turn a crankshaft into a soup bone. They bought broken cast and scrap from local yards and made protractor heads, combo squares, wood planes and an assortment of small tools. The head smelter guy would add the correct amount of some magic powders to make a grey cast or a more ductile type of iron. It was a smaller shop with about 25 people. The head gears for the hand crank ice cream machine are an example of what they casted on a regular basis. Seeing that the quality or grade of a casting run could be decided by one person could explain a little bit of the problems when dealing with casts that drive us crazy.
Parent - By FixaLinc (****) Date 08-26-2013 21:09
You have been around more of it then.  I didn't understand years ago about reading the sparks better on cast grinding test and looking at the grain to identify it better but it's good to know & learn.  Have read up some on casting but never set up a furnace yet and knew they had additives to change cast quality and other stuff to add makes the impurities settle out for a better quality cast.  One other main place that still casts new reproduction parts today for antique tractors and others things is Rosewood Machine in Rosewood, Ohio.  Before oil bust of 1980s you could go into many specialty casting shops here in Texas back then for repairs on cast they had huge ovens would hold more than one V12 Waukesha block at a time.  They made it look easy repairing heads, blocks, manifolds and other things look new again but we paid for it back then too.  Now Rosewood has new manifolds and other parts for about same price or less than we paid to have those same parts fixed 20 years ago lol.  Reproduction cast parts I get from another place are made in Taiwan or who knows and I was skeptical on their trans gears made for a JD tractor at a fraction of jacked up JD price but this guy has had them in his tractor he works now for 10 years or more no problems the quality actually looked good on them when they got here.  Now most of the scrap metal places don't sort cast like they use to or doesn't matter on their selling end.  One scrap place here the old guy knew by looking at engine heads, blocks, cranks we dropped off and he wanted them sorted as unloading because cast was better quality he could get more for it sorting it. 

http://www.rosewoodmachine.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc
Parent - By FixaLinc (****) Date 08-26-2013 21:12
Don't think they made those type wheels long.  Some of that stuff is getting rare not much of it left so spending to fix it is all you have when the rest that was left is gone or scrapped now.
Parent - By G.S.Crisi (****) Date 08-23-2013 23:00
Brent has raised a good question. Cast iron or forged steel? I agree with him that cast iron seems too fragile for a tractor wheel.
Is there a chemical lab where you live? By means of a file, take one gram or so of the wheel material and have it analyzed at the chemical lab.
If the material is forged steel instead of cast iron the welding procedure will be completely different.
Giovanni S. Crisi
São Paulo - Brazil
Parent - - By cddolan74 (**) Date 08-26-2013 11:27
Brent have you used 309L on cast? My first worry would be hot cracking, or does it depend on type of cast??????
Parent - By welderbrent (*****) Date 08-26-2013 14:32
You know...I would have to go back and check.  I'm pretty sure it was 309. 

If you do a search on here for some similar threads you will find some postings by...Yorkiepap (??) I think.  He used to do quite a bit of that.

I have only done it a couple of times.  I usually use my nickel 99.  I like the way it runs on cast.

Have a Great Day,  Brent
Parent - By welderbrent (*****) Date 08-26-2013 22:14
Yep, Yorkiepap (Denny).  Go to the following link to see more info.  Denny has given more details and has done a lot of the welding.

http://www.aws.org/cgi-bin/mwf/topic_show.pl?pid=192178;hl=Cast%20Iron

Have a Great Day,  Brent
Parent - - By Jim Hughes (***) Date 09-22-2013 13:25
lo-hi,
sorry for this post being so late. There is a very good TIG wire for cast iron that I have used alot. It is 890 Universal. It's produced by Universal Wire Works out of Houston. You can't find it on their web site but if you call them you can still get it. Their number is 713-649-3828. We use to use it for welding cast iron pump casings at BP Chemical. It was a temporary fix until they could get a new one but we never had the weld leak.

Hope that helps
Jim
Parent - By lo-hi (**) Date 09-23-2013 00:00
Jim, thanks for the info. I ordered 3 lbs of mg 289 at 100$ a pound. The old guy freaked out on the price and brought a ten pound box of Forney cast iron rod priced at 25$ for the whole box. It was a friend of his and he kept it near his wood stove so it would stay dry. It must have been through a bunch heating seasons. After I wiped the white stuff off and got to it, it didn't run to bad. These kind of jobs only come through once in awhile, most of the old-timer's are dying off and I help those I can. I do have a small MG spray torch that works nice on the smaller stuff. Thanks again, Perley
Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / cast iron

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