Not logged inAmerican Welding Society Forum
Forum AWS Website Help Search Login
Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / Backwelding Pipe Procedure
- - By atc250r (**) Date 10-04-2013 02:07
Just wondering if any of the contractors you know of has a backwelding procedure.  What I mean is a way of "touching-up" the bead on the inside of large diameter pipe where there is room for a welder to reach in and correct the defect from the inside.  If so, is it done with low hydrogen, or cellulose?  Seems to me that low-hydrogen should be used, as the hydrogen from cellulose rod wouldn't get "cooked" out by succeeding passes.
Parent - - By jarsanb (***) Date 10-04-2013 20:16
There hasn't been a requirement for procedures when 'backwelding' from API 1104 20th edition and earlier. The 21st edition does require procedure qualification for backwelding, but is still in the adoption stages. PHMSA has much published on the concerns of this practice with regards to everything you mention as well as  the lack of back bevel requirements detailed in ASME B31.8. (appendix I figure I-5). Another aspect of an XX10 electrode for backwelding pass would be increased hardness in the I.D. And lack of VT, poor weld profiles.

Here is an example of many.....

http://www.ingaa.org/File.aspx?id=16776
Parent - By G.S.Crisi (****) Date 10-04-2013 23:19
Very interesting pictures. I have a few comments to make.

Photo title: Misalignment at 36 inches segmented bends.
API Std. 5L and subsequent 5LX's allow an out of roundness of 1% of the pipe diameter. 36 inches is roughly 910 millimeters, so 1% is 9,1 millimeters, roughly 3/8 of an inch. Too much of a distance.
Back in my days of erector engineer, when I was in charge of the erection of a 24 inches natural gas pipeline, we used the well known strongbacks and wedges to have the two welding ends rounded up and facing perfectly each other. After this the weld was made, not before. This procedure was time consuming, of course; but more time consuming is to fix up the weld shown on the photo after it has cracked. I'm talking of more than forty years ago, nowadays there are devices that face two pipe welding ends in a few minutes.

Photo title: Improper weld transitions.
Even if approved by B.31.8 I don't like the transition shown in the sketch. At the gas pipeline erection I mentioned the transition of the thicker wall started right at the bevel root and continued in a 30° slope until it reached the pipe inside diameter.

Photo title: Backweld quality.
At the gas pipeline erection someone proposed to repair the weld first pass, when necessary, by backwelding. The client's inspector refused and I, the contractor, agreed (from time to time the client inspector and the contractor agree). Look on the photo at the guy who's backwelding. He's far from being comfortable, for sure. Can someone demand from him a first quality weld? Not me.
At the mentioned job, the few weld defects shown by Rx were removed by grinding and the weld remade.  

Photo title: Low strength fitting. Hydrotest failure.
I would say, and insist, that the failure has nothing to see with welds. It looks like a failure due to ductile fragile transition. What was the water temperature? This case deserves to be studied with more detail.

Giovanni S. Crisi
Sao Paulo - Brazil
Parent - - By Jim Hughes (***) Date 10-05-2013 11:59 Edited 10-05-2013 12:03
jarsanb,
great PPT. So are some of the changes coming in the 21st edition to API 1104 due to what they found in the investigation of San Bruno?

Thanks
Jim
Parent - - By jarsanb (***) Date 10-05-2013 15:00
Jim,
San Bruno comes into play but it's more of a collection of failures. These changes have been tossed around for a couple decades and we're finally starting to see some results. Change is slow as we know. AGA members trying to control costs is probably one of the biggest hurdles. Hers's another ppt. basically there are many of these updates and workshops available. Some more devoted to specific issues.

http://www.napca.com/PDF/August_2011/NAPCA__2011_Workshop_-_Steve_Nanney_Presentation.PDF

Professor Crisi,
I think the presentation is agreeing with your statements. For example, proper weld transitions are further detailed in ASME B31.8 illistrating your concern and recommendation. The photos are not necessarily representing correct practices, or best practices.
Parent - By 803056 (*****) Date 10-06-2013 18:52
Very interesting presentations Gentlemen.

Thanks for allowing us to read and enjoy them as well.

Best regards - Al
Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / Backwelding Pipe Procedure

Powered by mwForum 2.29.2 © 1999-2013 Markus Wichitill