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Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / Weld test
- - By Bubaza123 Date 10-10-2013 04:42
I am pretty new to the welding trade and have been practicing for my weld test. From what I understand is that it will be a 2in carbon pipe in a 6g position inside a restricted box. If any one has the dimensions of the box so I can fab one up and practice inside the box and if you have any pointers on such test
Parent - - By Cumminsguy71 (*****) Date 10-11-2013 03:22
6GR I believe is what your describing. I had downloaded a description of it at one time showing the box, the angle, etc. Not sure if I still have it or for that matter where it is. Talked to my Uncle one time about it and he's been welding forever. He rambled of quite quickly how to do it calling out what he would weld first on the root, where he would look and on and on. Never had the need to do it myself. Seems like the info I had was a MIL Spec I got from somebody. I'll dig around and see if I can turn it up on this laptop of mine.

I second Superflux's comment though, contact the folks giving the test and find out what they have set up. Who knows, it may be different in some way.
Parent - - By aevald (*****) Date 10-11-2013 03:46
Hello Shawn, the 6GR is the 45 degree inclined fixed pipe test with the restrictor plate/ring right above the groove, box not include for that one.

The test that includes the box is typically a shipyard test as someone else has commented. And that's my story and I'm sticking to it.........that is until somebody else proves me wrong, probably not too hard sometimes. Best regards, Allan
Parent - By welderbrent (*****) Date 10-11-2013 12:22
No proving wrong on this one Allan.

They are two different tests.  There are other applications besides the ship yards where I have heard of this test being the required acceptance criteria but not often.  I believe a company that used to do work down here at Palo Verde Nuclear Facility used that because of some of the areas that maintenance welding needed to be done in.  If it wasn't there it was a similar application, one of my past employees did work at several such facilities.  Refineries also come to mind as a possibility, as far as contractors getting shut down repair work wanting to make sure their people can complete the welding in very strange positions.

Have a Great Day,  Brent
Parent - By Cumminsguy71 (*****) Date 10-12-2013 00:42
Ok, I forgot about that one. I had something on this computer with the box, lucky if I can find it though! Don't guess I'll need either one though.
Parent - - By Superflux (****) Date 10-11-2013 12:33
Not quite as bad, but certainly NO FUN!
Attachment: SkinnyWeldersonly.JPG (298k)
Parent - By Cumminsguy71 (*****) Date 10-12-2013 00:46
Hahaha!! Nice!! That's the kind of stuff I always get stuck with! Sometimes being fit and skinny doesn't always work out how you want it to!
Parent - - By yojimbo (***) Date 10-14-2013 19:35
Story was, when I was working refineries in Houston back in the 90s that Fluor Daniels kept a pair of "little people" on staff for just such welding as shown in the picture, except the claim was they could skinny up into a 14" pipe for backwelding roots.  Always took that with a dose of salt.
Parent - - By Superflux (****) Date 10-14-2013 21:16 Edited 10-14-2013 21:32
yojimbo,
in '93, we did a water line for the city of Sheridan, Wy. Our smallest line was a 12" sch 10. Yes I reread that, NO TYPO! We hand mitered and custom built all the 30°, 45's, 90's etc. It was also cement lined!. Our helper was 5'-0" and weighed less than 90#s. We tied a rope to his feet and he could crawl up a 12" cement lined pipe (had to repeat that!) and patch the internal grout after welding. One man would pull on the rope and another would be at the other end so he could give commands to the "rope man" to halt the pulling when he got into a bind. This was not a rapid process on entry or egress.
On a similar note, back in 75 when I weighed 140, I spent 30 days of my "apprenticeship" with ARMCO Steel crawling inside 18" sch. 40 pipes fixing busted X-rays. I was not amused since my buddy who only weighed in at 130 missed out on this. Being a union shop though, he had 1 week's seniority on me and was able to pass it off on the FNG. And FWIW, I had no helper or hole watch. Just me with a hand full of tracing paper skins, an air hose, die grinder, drop light, and welding lead in the Houston August sun and a 100 yards of ugly pipe welds. Whaaaaahhh, whimper!
What we'll do for a buck... and no OSHA.
Parent - By welderbrent (*****) Date 10-14-2013 23:33
In my younger years I worked in a pipe manufacturing plant; 3"-144" pipe.  Policy was we didn't go into anything smaller than 22".  Truth was I was in 16" on many occasions, though 18" was the smallest I felt at all 'comfortable' in. 

Have a Great Day,  Brent
Parent - - By yojimbo (***) Date 10-15-2013 01:28
Flux-

Not if they threatened to cut my arms off.
Parent - - By Superflux (****) Date 10-15-2013 08:14 Edited 10-15-2013 08:22
Brent,
"Comfortable" is a very subjective term...
AND! if that foto weren't tight enough, check out this one.
This lady just retired from a part time career in Roller Derby.
If my memory is right, this was a 24".
Today, to be on my knees, I'd be a pressed interference fit in a 30".
Attachment: Evenskinnierwelder.JPG (289k)
Parent - By welderbrent (*****) Date 10-15-2013 23:23
So true,

I stand 5' 5" and weighed in at 130 lbs back then.  I am currently at 145.  But then, it would take a lot more money to get me to even think about going into those situations anymore. 

24" would be a breeze, but not with my knees up under me.  She must be very petite.

Have a Great Day,  Brent
- - By yojimbo (***) Date 10-10-2013 19:48
The restriction boxes I have tested to have all been 18" X 18" and the weld coupons were 4" schedule 80.  This leaves a 4 1/2" space from OD of pipe coupon to restriction box wall which is obviously a bit of a squeeze.  There is simply not enough room to get a hood inside to see the root going in.  A sockhood is the best option and in my foolish youth I've even resorted to a pair of cutting goggles with a #10 lens which also provides the benefit of a free tanning session from the ultraviolet and permanant burn scars as a bonus.  You could try practicing with a mirror if you want to drive yourself really nuts.  Honestly, don't know how I managed to make those tests.  Wouldn't bother to even roll out for it now.  It may just really be a test for love of welding as much as anything else.  Probably go with the sockhood and try to relax is your best bet.
Parent - - By PipeIt (**) Date 10-10-2013 20:31
Wow, I have never heard of that kind of a test sounds like a test for a boiler tube welder.  That will separate the men from the boys.
Parent - - By Superflux (****) Date 10-10-2013 21:53 Edited 10-10-2013 22:00
If truly serious, you need to get a hold of the people administering the test to get the intricate details.
Have you ever welded with a "Bite Shield"?
Not wanting to be a jerk, but if you have to ask, you are not near close to being ready.
Sounds like the company is wanting the "Best of the Best".
It had better pay REALLY GOOD. Most I've worked with that could do this do not sell themselves cheap... In fact, Most that CAN do this would just say "F"off on this test, unless it paid BIG BUCKS.
And yes, some of us have welded with 2 mirrors and received sun tans on the Back of the ears.
Parent - By F-17 (**) Date 10-10-2013 22:13
Shipyard test,the job won't pay much and the fitters will be stovepipers/skeet fitters.Which is why they are usually to lazy to cut off an existing pipe  at an accesible area,blame your engineers for that,never built anything but can draw everything that is possible on autocad.I've welded in mirrors,left handed,right handed and hanging upside down looking through a lens in goggles with a card(Beer box,pop box type).
- By 803056 (*****) Date 10-11-2013 15:09
This sounds like another case of the contractor going beyond and above what is required by the "code."

The code provides the minimum requirements that must be met, but the contractor is tasked with invoking additional requirements needed to ensure their products are safe and perform as required by the customer. If the production requirements involve welding in areas with limited access, the welder can be required to take additional qualification tests that replicate production conditions.

The 6GR qualification test defined in AWS D1.1/D1.1M test is an example where the code recognizes the high degree of difficulty encountered when welding open root groove joints in tubular connections. To address the limited access typically encountered when welding T, Y, and K connections, the PQR assembly and the welder qualification test include the restriction ring described by Allen.

The old MIL-STD-248 used to include a restricted access for welder qualification, but I do not recollect seeing that tests described in the more recent NAVSEA S9074-AR-GIB-0101/248 document. That is not to say the contractor cannot institute such a test to ensure the welder has the skill set needed to weld in confined areas.

Not all welds are on new fabrication. There are situations where the welder has to contend with on-site conditions. In the case of ship yard work or in the case of maintenance, the welds are often in areas that are difficult to reach and offer very limited access to make the needed weld. The contractor is wise to ensure the welder is skilled and has the ability to make the required welds under job conditions. "Newbies need not apply."

Best regards - Al
- - By Bubaza123 Date 10-11-2013 21:41
You are correct I am not ready for this type of test hence me asking for demensions so I could prepare myself for it. I'm very comfortable with a standard 6g position gtaw.  There is no restriction plate and I am supposed to get the demensions of the box sometime shortly from my understanding it was 24"x24" outside to outside. It is also not for a shipyard job. Thanks a lot for the help I will try and post pictures of the demensions and finished box.
Parent - - By 2006strat (***) Date 10-12-2013 03:49
Tack 4-2" pieces of pipe on a piece of plate about 18"-20" apart, In a square shape.  Then tack your coupon in the center of all.  It just limits your stops and starts, and where you can fit a grinder.  Take a cutting disk with you.  If it's tig take your flex head to.  Change theirs out with yours.  Don't ask just do it.  If you have a mini tig rig take it.  On a stick test remember you can bend those rods to fit where you need them to.  "If you got to ask your not ready" FU(k that, practice at home go test like you have done it 900 times before.  Take your time let it cool.  You can't strike out if your not trying to bat. 

  Restriction test might also be just a cover on the end of the coupons so you can look at your bead from the end of the coupon.  9 times out of time reguadless if your going to take a restricted box test the money isn't going to be worth.  Do it for the exspierence.  So when the high paying job comes you know you got it.  Any other questions let me know.
Parent - By Superflux (****) Date 10-12-2013 06:13
Don't ask just do it, practice at home go test like you have done it 900 times before, Do it for the exspierence,
2006strat, Excellent advice through the entire post!
One more thing if there is stick rod involved. Cut them in half or grab in the stinger half way bend the "dead end" and rotate a couple of times to get a good contact through the flux to bare metal.
Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / Weld test

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