Are imperfections on oversized welds ok?

Date 10-10-2013 22:22

To all,

So as a few of you know I am a beginner CWI, and today I went to a very large scale and wealthy oil drill manufacturer and walked and chatted with one of their CWI's. We walked and talked welds and whats acceptable. Their company is very particular and want show quality welds on everything they made and everything they sub out (our company).

Now to the point, we went over a few welds that I saw in their QC department, they had a few welds I noticed with cold lap that they accepted. The cold lap was in a way that it could easily propogate a crack. I asked him why they were not flagged for repair and he said the flaw was outside the weld size profile and it was ok. I think that contridicts the point and logic I have learned from all you fine gents. If a crack can start, why does it matter if if it clears the weld size profile? I attached a photo, and this is totally pulled off google and is an exaggeration of what these other welds look like to an extent, but hopefully you get my idea.

I thought that if there was a defect, it was a defect and should be fixed. regardless if it meets the weld size. If a weld is big its just a big weld, but if a weld has a cold lap that is nearly a "pinch" along the toe edge of a weld, it seems to me that that would be note for repair. Seeing as a mojority of their parts are cyclically loaded.

Jordan

Attachment: bad-welds1.jpg (45k)

By aevald

Date 10-10-2013 23:02

Hello Jordan, I would tend to agree with your assessment more than the explanation that you were given. An oversize weld with the lack of fusion along the toes that you noted could "possibly" be repaired with the use of a grinder and so long as it doesn't end up undersize after grinding has taken place that is likely all that is required. Left in an un-repaired condition could spell catastrophic failure in the wrong scenario and doesn't justify his response or explanation.

Beyond code there can certainly be additional requirements/exclusions/inclusions to minimum and maximum requirements of code application or otherwise. Even code requirements can be overridden by the EOR (engineer of record), their names go on these exclusions and they are liable for the decisions and choices that they make or apply in this manner. Contract stipulations between the customer and the fabricator/contractor would probably dictate the specific conditions/allowances and be tied to the specifics of a particular job or situation. Just my $.02 cents for the conversation here. Likely others with a whole lot more knowledge and specific information will chime in here as well. We'll likely both learn a lot in the process. Best regards, Allan

By Len Andersen (***)

Date 10-16-2013 19:07

Ladies and Gentlemen,
Been Graduate engineer for over 30 years and CWI for near 20. Meeting the spec might not seem illogical. An oversized weld is a stress concentrator. In the noise , sweat and confusion of a shop floor / construction site I follow the spec to limit. "Over Laps" that might be sixteenth of an inch after grinding I ignore.
Sincerely
Len Andersen Looking for Work
914-536-7101 / 914-237-7689 (H) / 800-428-4801 USA
POB 1529 / NYC 10116-1529 ( $1160 per year Caller
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By ssbn727 (*****)

Date 10-18-2013 09:50

Follow the code you're working to - Period. If you don't want to accept it and can justify your position empirically, then write an NCR - end of story. :roll:

Respectfully,
Henry

By 803056

Date 10-11-2013 15:24

Back to my 10/80/10 rule.

Not all CWIs, engineers, welders, or mechanics are created equal. There is always that bottom 10% that should be looking for a job they can perform adequately. Often it is simply a matter of "mind set".

Some people are promoted to positions of responsibility through attrition, they are the "boss' son", or the employer promotes their employees to positions for which they are not qualified.

It reminds me of the situation I encountered as an "Owner's Verification Inspector" on a project. Before I traveled to the Midwest to visit the plant, I asked if the fabricator had a CWI. They assured me they did. I assumed the CWI was part of the QC department. I couldn't have been more wrong. On arrival at the plant I learned the fabricator's QC manager was the janitor two weeks before I arrived on-site. The CWI I worked with to correct all the deficiencies was just one of the production welders. The welder was “just loving it,” while I never did meet the QC manager. Every time I approached the QC manager, he made a fast retreat in the opposite direction.

Best regards - Al