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Up Topic American Welding Society Services / Technical Standards & Publications / D1.5 over D1.1...
- - By weldermyass Date 11-13-2013 16:03
Onsite engineer asks the question . can you use D1.5 in a situation that normally could be D1.1? if so can the reverse be true, D1.1 can be used over a D1.5 situation?. Maybe a better question is can you use D1.5 based WPS for a D1.1 application but not the other way around. I have not heard there was a one supersedes the other on WPS applications. I always thought that Welders certified for D1.1 would also have to be certified for D1.5. Regardless of position, process or material groups. Any thoughts are greatly appreciated...
Parent - By Lawrence (*****) Date 11-13-2013 16:16
D1.5 has different welder performance qualification testing requirments (stricter) so unless the Engineer in authority is willing to sign off, I don't see welders "certs." easily crossing from D1.1 to D1.5 for the purposes of production.

For Welding Procedure Specifications to cross pollinate, it would have to be researched by an expert to be sure that all essential varibles, seismic requirements, as well as specific contractual requirments had been met or approved by the Engineer in authority to make that kind of decision.   The rigor I would think might be greater trying to get D1.1 procedures accepted into a D1.5 production scenario.

I bet Al and Brent have something even more complete to say about this.

Oh......... Welcome to the Forum!

.
Parent - By welderbrent (*****) Date 11-13-2013 17:43
With a handle like that, I wish you had put more info in your profile so I knew your name,  But...

WELCOME TO THE AWS WELDING FORUM!!

Now, It is not really a matter of one being over or better than the other one.  Both codes have their own applications.  It is also not that a company can use one for all the paperwork and then do any work that comes along in either of the two categories.  BUT...

You can have 'dual' certifications and/or WPS's.  You would get the majority of information from the D1.5 Bridge Code, because it is more restrictive in many areas, and then make sure you utilize parameters that cover both codes.  The main conflict is with welder qualifications which have some restrictions in D1.5 that are not required with D1.1.  Namely, use of only a slag hammer and wire brush during the test for D1.5.  But, if you test all your welders to that standard and any other essential variables for welder qualification then their cert can read that they are qualified to both.

The same applies to the WPS you are working to in production.  It is totally possible, if memory serves me right, to have WPS's that are acceptable to either code. 

Now, that doesn't mean that absolutely anything goes.  There will be applications where each will need a WPS specific for the job and code.  But, there are many areas where you can do it.  They need to be carefully researched and filled out and make sure they are applicable to the task at hand.

A couple of examples: 1) Pre-Heat, Inter-pass temps, and Maximum Temps-  D1.1 has no maximum and as a minimum standard leaves some things to be desired with it's low pre-heats.  D1.5 and the Seismic codes, D1.8, have a maximum inter-pass temp of 550°F.  So where the form has a spot for max inter-pass you would need to state it as such.  That restricts some applications of D1.1 but how often does one go over that temp and why would you want to even if it were allowed?  Production and profits is the obvious answer.  Not for quality and safety sake.
2) Materials- the two codes would need to be carefully compared to make sure the materials in question were covered in both.  But a dual WPS may be used where the materials are the same. 

Bottom line:  Most D1.1 welders will have to be qualified to D1.5 as well.  But, often, the D1.5 welders are good for D1.1 but need their cert to read that they are dual qualified or get the engineer on the job to accept their qualifications.

Hope that was helpful.  Just my two tin pennies worth.  And no books in front of me to get specific.

Have a Great Day,  Brent
- By 803056 (*****) Date 11-13-2013 20:47
A WPS can be developed to meet both AWS D1.5 and D1.1, but the time taken to research all the in's and out's of the limitations and restrictions may make the WPS more restrictive than it needs to be for D1.1 work. The base metals listed by D1.5 are much more limiting than D1.1, so you would have to develop some methodology to ensure the welder knows the difference.

Easiest route, keep them separate. There is a reduced chance of a "fatal" mistake being made by someone trying to write it or use it.

Al
Up Topic American Welding Society Services / Technical Standards & Publications / D1.5 over D1.1...

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