Anybody know of any outfits that require education beyond high school as well as certifications for employment eligibility?

Are there many career fields which hold an expectation for the employee to bring a fair to high level of skill, knowledge, work habits, and frequently autonomy, that don't?

I was taught you get out of life what you put into life.

I have had several mentors during my working career. Like my age, my skills have progressed, but only with the help of others that took the time to answer my questions and point me in the right direction. Ultimately it is up to the individual to seek help, training, and mentoring. Some people call it initiative, I call it an inquisitive mind. I wanted to know more. However, that need to know more did not apply to everything. For me, it was welding, building, and designing. For other people, different interests drive them into other endeavors. Some people get bitten by the computer bug, some are interested in writing, others find they like to sell. Thankfully that is the case or everyone would be trying to do the same thing.

In some ways I understand where Sourdough is coming from. It can be frustrating to work with individuals that have little interest in what they do for a living and they take little pride in what they do. I find that I have little empathy for individuals that do not put forth an honest effort. I find that if they don't have an interest in what they are doing, I would rather put my energies into someone that does want to improve their skills and lot in life.

Part of the problem, as I see it, it too many people have not been given an opportunity to explore the many different ways we can earn a respectable living. Too many people "fall into" their jobs because the job was available and they needed to put food on the table and a roof over their head. They have little interest in the work they do. For them, their job is simply a means of earning a paycheck. I was fortunate that my town had a school system that offered a wide variety of vocational courses in conjunction with academics. I took the "college track", but I also took every vocational class offered. It exposed me to woodworking (didn't like the dust), small engines and automotive (didn't care for the grease), drafting (didn't enjoy sitting for long periods of time), and metals shop (loved the machines and welding). My father fostered my interests by taking me on tours of Pratt & Whitney every few years. He worked second shift in the maintenance department as an electrician. It seemed like he knew everyone in that huge plant. I saw huge machines, welding, forging, casting, and NDT. I was probably around 13 or 14 the first time I saw Magnaflux or Zyglo.  Little did I know at the time I would be making a living doing NDT. We also spent a considerable amount of time at the local welding shop getting our farm equipment repair. It helped that the owner was expanding his shop and my father did all the electrical work for him. We got our welding done in exchange for my father's labor.  That's was where I was bitten by the welding bug. I couldn't get enough of it. I knew that was what I wanted to do.

Looking back, I have to wonder whether I would have taken the career path I have if it wasn't for the fact that I was exposed to so many different vocations as a youngster? Would I have progressed to where I am today if it were not for the mentors I've had over the years? I think the answer is clear, no.

I try to mentor others. I try to be responsive to questions asked by young welders or anyone that asks a question I have some knowledge of. Like Lawrence and others, I help welders improve their skills. I have taught several young people how to weld. I try to bring young welders into my NAVSEA training courses when they express an interest in welding and they want to know more than how to make a good looking weld bead. I have never had a client say no when I have asked if I could bring a young student to our week long training sessions. The youngsters are amazed at what they are expected to know in order to be a "NAVSEA" qualified welder. The advanced training gets them enthused about the possibilities that welding offers. They discover there is more to welding than making sparks.

I believe it is our responsibility to mentor young people, but I agree with Sourdough, they must express an interest in learning. If they already "know it all" and my advice falls on deaf ears, I simply save my voice for someone that is interested. As I say, "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it wear a bikini." Trying to teach someone with no interest makes no more sense than trying to make the horse wear the bikini.

As for AWS being a money making machine; absolutely, but that money is put to good use. I took every AWS seminar that was offered in my area. I took evening seminars that stretched over several weeks. I attended the technical sessions, I took courses in safety, design, welding symbols, etc. It is how I became more knowledgeable about welding and I got acquainted with the movers and shakers in the welding industry. I met Chuck Hellier, the owner of Hellier NDT. Little did I know he would give me my start in NDT and consulting. I met George Torello, the engineer that challenged me to take the CWI examination. It has been some thirty years since I met those two gentlemen and I still work with them. Both were influential mentors to me in my professional career. AWS has been a major influence in my welding career, both as a welder burning electrode and as a welding inspector/consultant. The money I pay every year in dues and the money I've paid to attend seminars has been well worth the cost.

Happy New Year - Al

This post has been around for some time, but it is still relevant.

In our legal system, the employer is responsible for he products produced and sold. The employer has to determine what is prudent to ensure the products produced will perform as expected, per the design and the customer's requirements.

There are employers that employ welders where the work is varied, in the shop or in the field, where the welder is expected to have the knowledge and the skills needed to set up the welding machine, ability to read drawings, fit, and weld. It is prudent for that employer to assess the welder's skills by devising a testing program that assesses those skills. The welder is provided with raw material, a sketch, a WPS, and it is up to the welder to produce an acceptable test specimen.

On the end of the spectrum is the employer that has the same mindset as Frederic Taylor where every job is divided into steps and each worker is responsible for hat particular operation. The employee is only expected to run the band saw, the next employee is expected to clean and prepare joints for welding, another employee fits the parts and tack welds them into proper alignment, and finally an employee welds the joint while still another employee cleans and prepares the welds for painting. The employee that only deposits a fillet weld of a certain size and length is not expected to be as well versed as the truly skilled tradesmen.

The extent of testing, i.e., the qualification tests required are different for each of the welders in the preceding paragraphs as is their respective wages. The "license" attempts to force the employer to meet some arbitrary standard that usually has little relevance to he work performed or the skills required by the employer. Case in point; one state (they wish to remain anonymous)  requires pipe welders in the mechanical trades to obtain a license that includes a written test that has no relevance to he pipe trades. The entire test relates to structural welding. The welder has to show documented evidence of passing a pipe test on any diameter, any base metal, with any process. There is a good chance the pipe test on which the license is found is not the one used in production. 

Since he employer is liable for any substandard work produced by the employee, the responsibility for testing and certifying is exactly where it belongs, with the employer. The employer that hires people with substandard skill sets are going to ultimately pay a price in a well earned bad reputation, incurred cost of rework, and in the worst case, legal actions.

The Owner has to take responsibility for the contractors they hire and the shoddy work they are willing to tolerate. The same hold true in our daily purchases. If we are willing to purchase substandard goods, whether it is the automobile we drive, the cloths we wear, the homes we purchase, we get what we pay for and the level quality we insist on. CalTran bought a bridge from China. Three different inspection agency reported the work was substandard. CalTran fired the inspection agencies. CalTran and the citizens of California got exactly what they paid for "Crap." They were told it was "crap" and yet they were willing to settle for "Crap." The citizens are the customers that elected their officials and rather than firing them, they reelected them or promoted them.

Universal licensing? It will make little difference in the long run.

Testing welders at an ATF? It will make little difference since it is still the employer that is responsible for the work produced. A test by an ATF has little relevance in the outcome. The test can only reflect the needs and expectations of the employer if the testing program meets their needs. Testing conducted by an ATF only ensures Miami gets their cut and drives up the cost of testing welders.

Al