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Up Topic American Welding Society Services / Certifications / Welder Qualification
- - By SFIENG (**) Date 03-04-2003 21:56
I am in need of some clarification or interpretation (sanity check). If a welder qualification test was performed IAW AWS D1.1 on a 1” plate per a pre-qualified CJP FCAW procedure using the joint design of B-U2-GF in the 3G uphill position, what will the welder qualification ranges be for the following. Position??, Progression??, Backing??, Thickness for plate/pipe/tube for Groove and Fillet??, Diameter of Pipe for Groove Fillet?? I have an ASME Section IX welding program in place and now need an AWS D1.1 and D1.6 program. I am having doubts with my interpretation of the AWS codes. Any help would be greatly appreaciated.
Parent - - By pipewelder_1999 (****) Date 03-04-2003 22:17
Position= F, H, V
Uphill Only
Required Backing or Backgouging
Unlimited "T"
24 In Minimum Diameter

This is from a 1998 D1.1 Para 4.22, Table 4.10,Table 4.9, and Table 4.8. Hope this helps a little.

G Austin
http://www.weldinginspectionsvcs.com
Parent - - By cawelder (**) Date 03-04-2003 22:34
I'm a new CWI, so dont let me mess you up. But I came up with:
Position = Vertical only Table 4.1 D1.1:2000
Single V groove only
uphill progression only
Requires backing or backgouging
Unlimited Thickness
24" or larger Pipe
Parent - By pipewelder_1999 (****) Date 03-04-2003 23:25
You may want to take another look at the "single vee groove" statement. I don't believe the joint type is an essential variable for welder pperformace qualification.

G A
Parent - - By SFIENG (**) Date 03-04-2003 22:39
Thanks for the quick response. I would like to further clarify the backing variable. The joint design B-U2-GF requires backgouging. Does the AWS code interpret backgouging as being backing? I do not see it that way, therefor I would have indicated on the WQTR that NO backing was used and would believe that with or without backing would be the range qualified. I do see that backing or backgouging is required for welding pipe over 24” OD (Note: I clarified above that I am referencing a welder qualification)
Parent - - By cawelder (**) Date 03-04-2003 22:43
When you backgouge, you remove all weld that was deposited without backing. Therefor when welding you are acually welding with backing.
Parent - - By cawelder (**) Date 03-04-2003 22:47
And also F V and H is correct on the position Table 4.8 not 4.1
Rookie Mistake
Parent - By jwright650 (*****) Date 03-06-2003 12:52
cawelder,
Don't beat yourself up over getting those tables(WPS and Welder Qualifications) mixed up, everybody does at one time or another. Just remember what it is you are needing to qualify.
John Wright
Parent - By SFIENG (**) Date 03-04-2003 23:02
Is the interpretation you stated for backgouging referenced and better clarified in the AWS code anywhere that you know of other than the definition stated in Annex B??
Parent - - By pipewelder_1999 (****) Date 03-04-2003 23:22
I didn't pay close attention to your joint design used for testing but I do not know of a paragraph that allows deviation from the test plates shown in figures 4.21 and 4.22. so maybe you can help me with that. As far as the backing issue goes para 4.23 states "Note that qualification on joints with backing qualifies for joints that are backgouged and welded from the second side.". No mention is made of the other option of welding a joint that is backgouged and it qualifying for backing.

G A
Parent - - By SFIENG (**) Date 03-04-2003 23:34
I am new to the AWS code so I would not recommend asking me for any help. I guess that I am still hooked into the ASME section IX world. If you can not deviate from the figures 4.21 and 4.22 by removing the backing strip then how can anyone be qualified without backing? I am lost!
Parent - - By pipewelder_1999 (****) Date 03-05-2003 00:15
The paragraph quoted above "4.23" states that qualification with backing qualifies for welds made from both sides. If you want to qualify someone to weld from one side without backing as would be the case for tubing or pipe you would use 4.24 on pipe or tubing and that would qualify you for plate or pipe/tube welded from one side without backing. This is indicated in table 4.9 (2002) and 4.8 (1998).

You may be lost, but you're not alone :)

G Austin
Parent - - By SFIENG (**) Date 03-05-2003 14:33
Thanks everyone for all of your input. I will continue on with my learning curve of the AWS codes. So this is what I have concluded from our discussions.

If a performance qualification test was taken using a pre-qualified FCAW procedure with the test coupon per Figure 4.21 (2000) in the 3G position running uphill on 1” plate, then the ranges qualified would be as follows.

Electrode: Single

Position: F, H, V

Backing: Backing or Backgouging required

Thickness: (Plate)
Groove 1/8” min to Unlimited
Fillet 1/8” min to Unlimited

Thickness: (Pipe/tube)
Groove 1/8” min to Unlimited
Fillet 1/8” min to Unlimited

Diameter: (Pipe)
Groove Over 24” OD
Fillet Over 24” OD
Parent - - By pipewelder_1999 (****) Date 03-05-2003 14:52
Thats the way I see it. It sure can be confusing. I also do work with a code D14.6 sometimes and its a combination of ASME Sec IX and D1.1. A very fine way to stay confused.

G Austin
Parent - By jwright650 (*****) Date 03-06-2003 13:07
You got it! And yes, as Gerald said, "D1.1 can be confusing", because it is tempting to add to, or read something into, what it says. We all struggle with interpetation and the learing curve seems to go on forever. Along with AWS switching sections and figures around from one year's edition to the next, it's hard to keep everyone on the same page when refrencing sections unless you specify which year's edition you are quoting from. Keep asking questions, it helps us all to stay sharp to get in there and dig up answers to questions.
Have a great day,
John Wright
Up Topic American Welding Society Services / Certifications / Welder Qualification

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