A noob with a welder and sledge hammer

By swsweld (****)

Date 02-04-2014 03:52

Kung fu,
For D1.1, see the acceptance criteria for a fillet weld break test:

[i]4.30.4.1 Acceptance Criteria for Fillet Weld Break
Test. To pass the visual examination prior to the break
test, the weld shall present a reasonably uniform appearance
and shall be free of overlap, cracks, and undercut in
excess of the requirements of 6.9. There shall be no porosity
visible on the weld surface.
The broken specimen shall pass if:
(1) The specimen bends flat upon itself, or
(2) The fillet weld, if fractured, has a fracture surface
showing complete fusion to the root of the joint with no
inclusion or porosity larger than 3/32 in. [2.5 mm] in
greatest dimension, and
(3) The sum of the greatest dimensions of all inclusions
and porosity shall not exceed 3/8 in. [ 10 mm] in the
6 in. [ 150 mm] long specimen.

If your welds meet the above criteria and you are attempting to pass AWS D1.1 fillet weld test then yes, you are close…maybe there.

By kung fu panda (*)

Date 02-04-2014 13:38

swsweld,

Thanks. I have considered practicing to take the fillet weld test. As of now I am a hobbyist, but who knows...The pictures I posted don't allow you to see the weld prior to the "testing" but the bead was free of overlap, cracks, undercut and porosity.

By yojimbo (***)

Date 02-04-2014 15:51

Kung Fu-

When preparing to qualify a downhand fillet GMAW procedure to D1.1 last year for a project being undertaken we employed the services of a CWI for assistance in documentation and the additional validity we thought his approval and inspectors stamp would provide. His primary focus of concern was complete fusion at the root. After the procedure had been qualified I used it to test welders and used the same criteria. In order to do so, macro-etching of a cross section of the weld was needed to examine root fusion.

The simplest and most cost effective way to do that was as follows: Produce the fillet weld to be tested. In a bandsaw, or with a portaband, cut a cross section of the weld. Using a flapper disc of at least an 80 grit or higher polish the welded cross section perfectly smooth. Immerse the sample in hydrocloric acid overnight, thoroughly wash the acid off the next day and examine the root for complete fusion. In the fillet weld that will be right at the joint where your 1/4" plate meets the 1/2" plate. That joint should show fusion of weld deposit into both plates and somewhere beyond the corner of where they meet. After the sample has been etched in the acid the area of fusion will be visually very apparant as will any lack of fusion.

Any of the big hardware stores will carry hydrochloric acid solution. It is used to clean concrete and while not as strong as the acid used by labs and inspectors for the same purpose it will do the job it just takes a longer time to etch the sample [overnight compared to 10 minutes]. It only cost about 10 bucks a gallon and will provide you proof positive that your weld meets D1.1 fusion requirements.

The visual requirements of the weld appearance should obviously be met a well, equal legs on the fillet, no undercut, no porosity, minimal if any splatter, no overlap, smooth appearance, you know, it should be slick. But if memory serves from your earlier posted photos you were either pretty close to that already or even there. If your welds are looking good and you want to test them further I'd do the macro-etch. It will tell you more regarding weld quality/strength and save you a lot of hammering.

If there are any inspectors that wish to challenge the above, please by all means do so, but I believe it is a valid manner for sample examination.

Best of luck Kung Fu.

By kung fu panda (*)

Date 02-05-2014 01:47

yojimbo,

Thanks, lots of really useful info. Gonna check around for a bandsaw. FWIW, below is a pic of the weld prior to "test"…

By yojimbo (***)

Date 02-05-2014 20:04

Kung Fu-

So if you really want to approach the examination of your welding from the standpoint you would recieve if you were undergoing intruction/training in an accredited school for professional entry into the trade you will need to be assured of a tough skin and an ability to accept criticism/evaluation to meet professional standards.

First, your welds look pretty damn good, especially if you are largely self trained. Also, as you have demonstrated via the large sledge hammer, your weld seems to have every appearance of strength. The fact is, appearance, or weld geometry, while critical in many applications, under non-code applications is a secondary consideration. Any of the experienced welders on the forum can relate stories too numerous to count of welds with terrible or severely less than desired appearance that have both passed x-ray examination and serviced in structural application. That however is not an acceptable criteria to apply for a professional.

In a good training facility a student's ability to meet an objective standard, including weld appearance and geometry, is going to put to the test as many times as neccessary untill they can perform that weld correctly, repeatedly and in really good schools with a certain manner of ease and efficiency. They will then be challenged to learn a new weld to the same standard ie. different position, direction of travel, material thickness, consumable ect. This process goes on, regardless of the students ability to withstand ongoing criticsim of their work for as long as it takes to get it right.

Not altogether sure what you're looking for here in the way of feedback. If you're just looking for attaboys doin stuff in your garage- you're covered. Good enough for hobby work of just about anything.

Now if you want to test/push yourself further: your weld shows some degree of lack of control- the weld size, measured on the legs is a little bit irregular along it's length, somewhat thicker at the start and varies along smaller in the middle. Needs to look like a machine did it. Same size legs from start to finish along the full length. In this case, I expect travel speed is the primary obstacle. You moved fractionally slower at the beggining and had more deposit there. My suggestion: anticipation. Knowing this is a tendency, to go just a little too slow at the start, prepare yourself mentally before pulling the trigger to alter and overcome the tendency. Visualize the start and travel speed in your mind and adjust it to get things a more equally deposited.

2nd. The upper [and to a lesser degree the lower] leg of the weld does not appear to have smooth, whetted out fusion at the base metal. I suspect it is a combination of both settings and technique. Do you use any form of manipulation of the electrode? Do the youtube search on mig welding, somewhere there is a video that demonstrates a good electrode manipulation and explanation that will help you correct both weld size and whetted surface at the edges of the weld.

3rd When you have worked on that for awhile, begin learning how to weld a stack of beads for a fillet weld of larger size. Both youtube and some basic welding texts will direct you in that. Part of any irregularity of your welds may be you are depositing more weld in a single pass than either you or your power source can handle comfortably. Practicing a stacked fillet weld, with properly sized and spaced beads may aid in both base material fusion at the legs and overall weld size. In any case, it is both good practice, would be expected of you in any training class, is a neccessary skill in the trade and will save you considerable amounts of practice steel because you will be able to use the same piece of steel to weld on as you build the weld up.

Play around with a corner to corner weld. Tack some of that 1/4" bar together so the corners just meet and try welding the V shaped intersection so that the corner is completely filled out flush to the base metal without having any of the edge burned off at all. This is another very common weld configuration you are likely to run into and will assist you in improving your travel speed and weld control.

Practice all of this both right to left as in your weld and left to right.

I see a little more spatter than I'd care for myself. My guess is you might turn down the wire speed 5 IPM if you have that ability on your machine, maybe more, maybe less, you'll have to play with it.

Conclusion: there' nothing you're doing that wont likely provide you all the weld soundness you'll ever need to "just make stuff in you garage". You're doing fine with what you've got. If you want to keep challenging yourself, try out some of the sugestions I've made and see where it takes you.

Best of luck

By kung fu panda (*)

Date 02-06-2014 00:10

yojimbo,

Appreciate the effort in your response.

I am child of the internet in terms of my welding knowledge, and my experience comes solely from time in the garage. I may eventually begin to explore more in depth my curiosity regards welding.

I am open to any criticism that is clear and comes with potential solutions, like yours.

I do tend to create a longer weld leg at the start of the weld. To some degree it is purposely done, because I notice that, in general, especially with my early welds, those that did break under "testing", failed mostly at the start of the weld. My thought was that if I let the gun linger a little at the start it might address the issue. I did notice some gradual improvement regards the strength of the initial part of the bead with this method However, if I linger too long I suppose I am just piling up weld bead and, in fact, may be defeating my intention to create a stronger weld at the out set. As you mention, achieving proper travel speed only arrives after much practice. Not sure if the approach I describe is the best way to increase weld strength at the start of a bead, but right now it's all I gots. :red:

I have been doing most of my recent welding at what I believe are spray arc transfer settings, and so I have not done much in the way of manipulation of the gun because I had heard that the spray transfer mode was such that weaving or anything other than just a stringer bead was tough to achieve, because of the amount of heat and speed of the weld. Nevertheless, in my initial welds I was practicing weave techniques.

One question I have is what does "whet out" mean. I have heard the phrase before, but admit I do not have a good understanding of what it means. Is it related to fusion? What are the signs of good whet out? How is it achieved? Also I believe that pre heat has helped my weld but I am just winging it there, as far as temps required for the thickness I am welding.

Anyway thanks for your insight.

By yojimbo (***)

Date 02-06-2014 07:05

KF-

Whetting out is a means of describing fusion at the toes of the weld leg- right where the outside edge of the weld meets base metal. The weld should have the appearance of smoothly dissapearing into base metal; there should be no raised edge at the toe of the weld.