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Up Topic American Welding Society Services / Certifications / AWS Vs WABO
- - By Firechicken Date 02-14-2014 16:02
I was recently talking with some other welders in my shop about the different colleges and certifications. I brought up that the college I attended offered WABO (washington administration of Building officials) and another worker mentioned that his school offered AWS certification. We tried to figure out the differences between the two, but honestly didnt have enough knowledge about them. If anyone has a good answer for the differences, advantages and disadvantages of each i would appreciate hearing about them, thank you.
Parent - By Lawrence (*****) Date 02-14-2014 17:21 Edited 02-14-2014 17:34
Just an opinion here.

Employers typically drive which credential is most desirable.

Also typically, employers will not accept any outside cert. (welder performance qualificatin test record) without testing again themselves.

So from a students perspective it's most important to have the "skills" to pass a variety of tests, and to "study" by reseach the differences between the tests and balence that with the needs of the employers they intend to approach.

Having a "cert" is a good thing to get your foot in the door to take more tests!  Welders are professional test takers, so you need to understand this and get used to that part right up front :)

I believe WABO certs. (Allen correct me if I'm wrong) are managed at a centeral location so that employers have a way to check to make sure somebody who shows up with a WABO card actually has continuity and is who he/she says they are.  Similar to the Canadian Welding Bureau.  The AWS only does this if the test has been conducted at an ATF (accredited test facillity).

Edit:
There is never a disadvantage to passing a weld test :)
and
You will note in Clause 5 that WABO welder tests when side bends are used is a little more rigorous (at least in my opinion.)
https://wabo.memberclicks.net/assets/pdfs/Welder/std%2027-13%20sixth%20edition%20november%202013.pdf

.
Parent - - By aevald (*****) Date 02-14-2014 19:07
Hello Firechicken, when you are considering WABO testing, this testing is based on a system that is managed by a non-profit organization to promote welder training and certification procedures and qualifications. The WABO card holder "retains" their card although WABO ultimately "owns" the card as they can renew/revoke it as they see fit according to the bylaws that they are governed by.

When you start a job you will likely be tested in-house by the new employer and when they determine that you have the necessary skills they will request to see the card and use your number to provide documentation on any WABO covered work performed while in their employ. Inspectors performing QC on any work in the shop that you are working in can request to see your card and if you cannot physically produce it they can curtail current and future work until you can produce this documentation.

If you change employers your card goes with you and when you have passed an in-house test for them or they have accepted the card at face-value(not likely to happen), you will supply them with the number and be "qualified" to work to WABO requirements for the new employer.

Many certifications that are "required" by employers for their employees are "company specific" and if you leave the employ of that company you are no longer considered certified/qualified. You might physically have possession of your card, yet, you are not allowed to apply this card to work for any other employer.

Common Arc testing is utilized by some union jurisdictions and my understanding of this is somewhat similar to that of WABO with the main difference being that individuals who have the common arc qualifications are observed during testing by a number of the major employers in that area and if the individual goes to work for any of these folks their welding qualifications will be accepted without further testing.

Hope this helps a bit with your question. I am located in SW Washington and we have WABO in place, there is also AWS, ASME, API, and other systems in place for various fabrication and welding purposes. Best regards, Allan
Parent - - By ctacker (****) Date 02-15-2014 18:12
Allan,
or they have accepted the card at face-value(not likely to happen),

You would be surprised how much it does happen. That is one reason I drug up at my last QC managing position. when they needed bodies, they put them to work whether or not they could weld, as long as they had the card. Then they couldn't understand why QC was always holding up production.

Recently I was on a bridge for the state DOT and the contractor brought in someone all carded up and tried to get him to weld some 6" open root pipe. After seeing his card I could not allow him to weld. He was qualified in several processes and all positions but nothing on pipe or no open root qualifications. His procedure was for 7018 root, fill, and cap. It took the contractor about a week to get someone qualified and with a wps that utilized 5p root and 7018 fill and cap.

It does happen quite often.
Carl
Parent - - By aevald (*****) Date 02-15-2014 19:39
OK Carl, I was dipping into the wishful thinking well and hoping that this sort of thing was a seldom occurrence. I am sure that you are right though, if someone get's into a pinch they will likely forego the intelligent choices and go with what they think will get them by. Best regards, Allan

PS. So are you still working in Longview? I've meant to give you a holler, but I've been dealing with my elderly parents and spending a lot of time out of town.
Parent - By ctacker (****) Date 02-15-2014 22:50
Allen, good to hear from you again, Longview was over at the end of the year. There were a few instances I am aware of in just the last year where I seen welders hired with their WABO and no additional testing. I was at one place and the shop foreman told me about a new hire and the test he performed, come to find out the test was a single pass fillet weld with no break test or anything. They just looked at how smooth the weld was and hired on that merit. He was proud of it and drug it out of the scrap bin to show me. It was a smooth weld but it was obvious it was ran at a high current and had excessive undercut all along the plate, 
It may not be that rampant, but it does happen. Hope all works out with your folks.
Carl
- - By Firechicken Date 02-14-2014 20:53
thanks guys for the very informative and prompt feedback, that clears things up for me.
Parent - By welderbrent (*****) Date 02-14-2014 23:24
Firechicken,

One thing to remember clearly, the guys alluded to but didn't get specific, WABO is Washington specific.  It will be required for many, but not all, jobs you may hope to work on there.  AWS, is much broader, like, world wide; especially national in the US.  At least, as was stated, when given through an ATF or if you work for the same company travelling the country. 

Personally, if you live in WA and want that kind of work, get both.  Then you won't be held back if you go somewhere else.

Have a Great Day,  Brent
Parent - - By Blaster (***) Date 02-15-2014 21:33 Edited 02-15-2014 21:47
I think one of the best things about WABO, and one of the reasons for its success, is that comparably speaking there is less opportunity for fraud compared to non-AWS accredited test facilities issuing test records claiming testing to AWS standards.

WABO testing can only be done at a WABO accredited facility, by a WABO Approved Welder Examiner.  Qualifying to become and to maintain standing as WABO AWE requires current standing as an AWS CWI, and employment at a WABO accredited testing facility.  A prospective Examiner must also pass the WABO AWE exam which is a written test on the WABO Standard 27-13.

WABO site accreditations are good for 3 years.  The site inspections (which I just had yesterday) follow a punch list for record keeping procedures, approved base metal and filler metal accountability, test administration procedures, test sample processing procedures and accountability,  positive ID of the test taker, possession of suitable WPSs, and appropriate testing facilities, equipment, and inspection capabilities.  The last 6 months worth of test samples and specimens must be kept for correlation with the site's test records.  The records must be kept for 3 years at the accredited test site.

WABO is a fairly widely recognized standard in Washington.  The test site and inspector have a lot to lose if they ever got sideways with WABO and lost their accreditations.

The test site does not issue the welder a certification.  Rather the test site produces a test record that is forward to WABO.  WABO issues plastic certification cards, like a credit card, that is printed with the welder's qualifications,  The card would be quite difficult to fraudulently reproduce.  The certs are good for one year and require the welder to submit a completed WABO sign off card with the signers' phone numbers to serve as proof of continuity, in order to renew.  WABO also includes written penalties for all welders concerned in the case of identified fraud, even if the legitimately qualified welder claims to have "lost" or had their card stolen, if the loss or theft was not reported to WABO before the fraudulent use of the card by a third party is discovered.  WABO grants confiscation authority of WABO cards by inspectors or anyone working on WABOs behalf if fraud is discovered.

All in all, it is in my opinion a worthwhile organization in regards to welder certification testing.

*Note:  WABO does use the term "certification" regarding their "certifications", so it IS the right term to use here.
Parent - By aevald (*****) Date 02-16-2014 01:17
Hello Blaster, nice rundown/description much more detailed than mine. We'll be going through our WABO audit in April sometime I believe, gotta make sure that I have all things in order and such. One slight modification to your description however, I was grandfathered in with continuance of my WABO examiner status(I am not a CWI), I tested and became an examiner prior to the requirement to have CWI credentials. I did however perform 2 written tests to become an examiner, one was an open book exam and the other was a knowledge skills test. They were proctered by one of the local building officials in our town and the results were forwarded to WABO and I received my credentials from them. I also had a WABO examiner that mentored me on the testing processes and recording of data and submission of data. That was about 23 years ago. I'm sure you are busy up your way, we are as well. Have a great winter and best regards, Allan
Up Topic American Welding Society Services / Certifications / AWS Vs WABO

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