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Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / Drive Off Moisture and Get Better Welds
- - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 03-20-2014 21:09
Beware of electrode coatings with more than .20% moisture. Welding releases hydrogen, hydrogen promotes cracking... Another very good article for reference.

https://phx-international.com/technical-articles/better-welds/drive-moisture-and-get-better-welds

And another one for the toolbox!:roll::grin::smile::lol::wink::cool:

Respectfully,
Henry
Parent - By kcd616 (***) Date 03-20-2014 22:39
I have to disagree
on xx10 rod
the hy
gives penetration
and the O and carbon form co2 for the shielding gas
just imho
been through this on here a time or two
but now it is a 50 link thread
sincerely,
Kent
Parent - - By 46.00 (****) Date 03-20-2014 23:04 Edited 03-20-2014 23:33
Henry, the site is in it's death throws, I admire your efforts but it's just about gone. multiple postings to interesting links aint gunna save it! The people that mattered deemed fit to advertise, the people who objected left, simples!  I dare say it will carry on but it will never recover it's past glory! It used to be the best welding site! Was a sad day when the ESAB banner was shown!
Parent - By kcd616 (***) Date 03-21-2014 04:10
Glyn
they have to come back
this has the best minds in the welding business, your one of them
this is the best ever
let us make this work
sincerely,
Kent
Parent - - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 03-21-2014 05:55
That's life Glyn... I'm just doing what I have been doing in here for many years... And there's always somebody out there that can appreciate these articles and they may not be here frequently nonetheless, they do appreciate the articles I enjoy sharing with in here... That will not change until the day I pass on from God's green earth because the forces of darkness can never control my mind or my thoughts and as you noticed, I like to share some of it in here... I agree Ken! :lol::wink::cool:

So, NEVER GIVE UP - NEVER FORGET - NEVER GIVE IN and most important of all, KEEP CALM & ALWAYS LOOK @ The BRIGHT SIDE of LIFE especially when the darkness falls upon us all... CHEER UP Glyn, this place will keep going on just as long as we all keep it going.:roll::grin::surprised::lol::twisted::wink::eek::cool:

Respectfully,
Henry
Parent - By kcd616 (***) Date 03-22-2014 00:37
Henry, agrees
now we can all keep our 6010 in 5 gallon bucket of water
except for Dwayne aka cactus who will get a 10 gallon bucket..........show off...lol:wink:
sincerely,
Kent
Parent - By js55 (*****) Date 03-21-2014 13:05
Death throws????
Nah!!
I'm too old for talk of death throws. Ups and downs is all. I think there is a natural cycling in sites like this, built upon informational discussion. When you start to see comments such as 'this has been spoken of ad infinitum do a search', you know the participants are getting fatigued with redundancy. What is needed is a new wave of participation. As long as there is need for welding information sites like this will weather the slow times.
When you look at the welding industry despite all the hoopla here and there, the fundamentals have not changed all that much. The great bulk of new technologies are built upon the old, and they are targeting small specific sectors of industry. The big 5 still rule, GMAW, SMAW, GTAW, SAW, and FCAW. the latest craze is hybrids. But what are hybrids but hybrids of the predominantly the big 5, with some plasma tossed in. So for the most part it lends itself to redundancy.
The way I see it this site will only die when the need for the information it offers dies. Vacuums will be filled.
- - By 803056 (*****) Date 03-21-2014 19:37
I just read through the article. It is interesting, but it should have been proof read first. There something fishy with several details. First, the decimal points dealing with solubility seem to be incorrect. Second, martensite forms when cooled quickly from austentizing temperatures provided there is sufficient carbon or other elements that increase the carbon equivalency.

It looks like I have to go back to school to relearn how the decimal point works and repeat my metallurgy courses to learn the "new" metallurgy being taught.

I thought I might drop in to see if this site looks as "circus like" as AWS' home page. You know, so many banners, it is difficult to find any real information.

Al
Parent - - By js55 (*****) Date 03-21-2014 20:16
If you're here we'll find it.
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 03-21-2014 20:19
"? "

Al
Parent - - By js55 (*****) Date 03-24-2014 11:46
Al,
Yours is real information.
Parent - By 803056 (*****) Date 03-24-2014 14:56
Sorry to disappoint.

Al
Parent - By kcd616 (***) Date 03-21-2014 20:26
we are here Al
thank you for coming back
we need you here
sincerely,
Kent
Parent - - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 03-25-2014 07:08 Edited 03-25-2014 07:27
Is this what you're talking about Al?

"Beware of electrode coatings with more than .20% moisture. Welding releases hydrogen, hydrogen promotes cracking..." Or these paragraphs?

"Steel's ability to absorb hydrogen increases with temperature. Molten steel absorbs more than .0024% hydrogen, and at 2,600oF, when the steel is austenitic, the hydrogen solubility is about .0001%. When the metallurgical structure is ferrite at 1,600oF, the solubility of hydrogen falls to about .00025%, and at a normal 70oF, .0002%. Because weld deposit hydrogen content from standard electrodes runs from .0001 to .002%, there is a significant risk of generating sufficient levels of hydrogen to supersaturate the molten weld from the core wire alone. The operator must reduce the available hydrogen in the coating for quality welds.

When steel is heated above its critical temperature (the point of temperature where there is a transformation from one metallurgical phase to another phase) and fully austenitic is cooled slowly it converts to a hard brittle martensitic structure. Cooled rapidly enough the austenite will not transform into martensite. The retained austenite now changes very slowly to martensite at temperatures from 400oF to room temperature. During the delayed transformation, the metal microcracks and fissures. If other stresses are present, cracking becomes aggravated and is easily detected. The defect may appear in the weld, at the weld interface, or in the parent metal, depending on how the hydrogen moves or where it becomes trapped.

Besides eliminating stress raisers, other precautions include reducing the retained austenite through carbon control, cold-working and holding the heat treating temperatures to close limits. Other defects, such as porosity, inclusions and notches should be eliminated, as they exacerbate hydrogen effects. It is not known for sure whether hydrogen causes porosity, but it does influence the amount of porosity in the weld."

Carbon and carbon equivalency wasn't discussed in the article and I agree that it should have been included because the author only implies steel yet, doesn't elaborate what type of steel, and I believe should have been more precise especially when throwing around all those decimals and other details... My guess is that the author probably ASSumed (You know what happens when this thought is applied) that most people would assume he/she was implying about mild steel but then again, that's only my guess so in summary, I would have to agree that there should have been if any at all, more careful attention to details and accuracy in this article.:eek::twisted::fat::slim::razz:

Respectfully,
Henry
Parent - - By js55 (*****) Date 03-25-2014 11:58
Henry,
That third paragraph doesn't make any sense to me.
Also, steels ability to absorb hydrogen may be increased by temperature but the evolution of hydrogen out of steel IS ALSO increased by temperature. Everything moves faster at higher temps, and in all directions.
Parent - - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 03-26-2014 06:49
I agree Jeff and it does surprise me because usually a company such as this one get's their ducks in a row so to speak and makes sure that they're putting out the most accurate and precise facts when it comes to specifications but, they dropped the ball in describing this chart... It must have been written by one of those still wet behind the ears newly ordained welding engineers working to meet the deadline for this publication as part of one of his/her first projects... Who knows but, I''m going to contact them to inform Phoenix regarding the inaccuracies found in this guide/reference material so they can ultimately correct them.

Respectfully,
Henry
Parent - By js55 (*****) Date 03-26-2014 11:54
Henry,
Thanks. I just thought maybe I wasn't reading it right.
By the way. Good stuff lately.
Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / Drive Off Moisture and Get Better Welds

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