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Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / AERO WAVE
- - By TRC (***) Date 03-12-2003 13:51
Hello everyone.
Can anyone tell me if there is a significant difference between square wave and the cone shaping (AC) claims of the Aero Wave. I tried one at a show a few years ago and wasn't able to see a dramatic difference. Was it because I only had a few minutes to try it. Is there really enough difference to justify the extra 5 grand difference between the Aero Wave and the 350 Syncro Wave ( and no Dave S., I'm not an English Major)?
I need a large machine for the versatilty that it gives me. I'll be using it to do sheet metal to D17.1 on the AC side and heavy weldments to MIL-STD-248/278 on the DC side.
As always, thank you very much- Ted.
Parent - - By rhoople47 (**) Date 03-12-2003 20:02
Ted: If I where you, I'd look at the dynisty welder by miller, alot cheaper and (about $5,200, inverter,cooler,cart, and torch) you can dial the arc to a point where you can hardly see the line created by the cleaning action of the arc. Which was what I was looking for, as we are making aluminum railings that are grained and can't be touched up for apperiance. It's an inverter type machine so it is very compact, where as the aero wave is a larger machine giving basicly the same results. 350 syncro is a good machine, but the dynisty, ahhhhh. Check the machine out, have someone give you a demo with it, or try it yourself.
Parent - - By TRC (***) Date 03-12-2003 20:53
I undersatand the 300 Dynasty is quite a machine. I looked up the pricing and it looks like I could buy a 300 Dynasty for the light work AND a 350 Syncrowave for the heavy stuff and still be WAY ahead of the game!
But I would still like to hear from someone that has some arc time on an Aerowave.
Thank you- Ted.
Parent - - By DGXL (***) Date 03-12-2003 23:49
I have many hours logged in with the Aerowave, both in production and training my clients how to utilize the most from theirs.

The Aerowave is an excellent machine for critical applications which require advanced arc wave forms and tailoring of welding parameters not available on other "standard" GTAW equipment. Particularly on nonferrous materials (e.g.: aluminum). It does take time to dial in one these machines to obtain optimum results like bead profile, amount of cleaning, penetration profile, etc. especially if you have not used one before. I find the Aerowave most advantageous with thick aluminum or other materials with high thermal conductivity. I was welding beer cans together with old machines. So more controls do not mean much to me on the thin stuff.

I can (and so can most experienced TIG welders) do the same with a Syncrowave or other power supply, including the old Miller AB/P,s, Lincoln Idealarc TIG 300's, etc. It's the driver, not the car (yeah I know I'm repeating myself). Many welders were welding very thin gauge ferrous/nonferrous materials long before the hybrid machines were out. I have several clients who purchased Aerowaves, but usually turn on the Syncrowave to weld something in a pinch. Strange.

You will find you can do more with the Aerowave, but you can accomplish just about the same with a standard piece of equipment without all the bells and whistles. Many posts in here on this subject. I just tried the search engine in this forum and it works pretty good, try typing in Aerowave and see what you get. Good luck.

p.s.: Bring along some earplugs in case you don't know what to do with the frequency dial.
Parent - - By TRC (***) Date 03-13-2003 04:11
I can't thank you all enough for the help. I did the search and I'm not sure that the work I'm going to be doing will require an Aerowave. Sounds to me like my thoughts of a 300 Dynasty and a 350 Syncrowave would do me best.

My current AC GTAW is a 330 AB/P and I've heard that it's an oldy but goody. I can say that I'm am not a top of the line TIG welder like some of you folks but I have done a lot of AC work with it and it does OK on anything that doesn't require amps above 215. I do have some arc time with a 250 Syncrowave and I don't see much difference below approx 70 amps.

Is there a big difference on the low end of a Dynasty or Aerowave compared to my AB/P? Can the arc cone be shaped below 70 amp to make a big difference?

Parent - By DGXL (***) Date 03-13-2003 05:05
The low end has a noticable difference on just about any of the newer generation power supplies. Very smooth and stable on the new stuff. You would [for sure] like the new stuff by just about any manufacturer these days. Let's not get into what color.

Your 330 is THE machine I learned to GTAW on back in 1975. An excellent GTAW power supply that was an industry standard for years. Airco's, Lincoln's, Hobart's, P&H, etc., there must be thousands of these still in use today. All very loud with the big "Fred Flinstone" foot pedals, noisy contactors, loud cooling fans, mess with the computers & other electronics, etc.

My only complaint is the primary (incoming) power requirements for these types of equipment. But that is like complaing about a 1968 Cobra and the gas mileage it gets.
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 03-13-2003 21:43
Hi Ted,

I also work with and teach with both Aerowave and Dynasty.

You will see a difference in Arc initiation between Aerowave and Dynasty. Dynasty has an excellent inverter that will fire great consistency down to about 5 amps DC- given a clean electrode. Aerowave is a horse of a different color. Low amp arc starting is a real problem. Aerowave incorperates a combination of HF and a DC+ pulse measured in milliseconds. This is problematic in that the machine doesn't like low amp ignition and tends to send reverse polarity pulses until your electrode tip is shined at the end. You cannot "sneek up on your foot pedal" it must be stepped on with authority. I have experienced this with 4 different Aerowaves.

DGXL... I would like to know if you have had the same experience at very low amps DC-

Parent - - By DGXL (***) Date 03-13-2003 23:45
Used an Aerowave the other day @ around 30 - 40 amps or so, and it was on SS. Will try again at the lower range you mentioned in a few days. The welder was having lot's of problems, I tried the machine (with about 6 people watching over my shoulder) and it worked fine. He was having starting problems, but I suspect for another reason which I will not post. After watching what I did, he duplicated the effort and the machine worked fine.

I have experienced the problem you noted with the tungsten on many standard-older transformer power supplies at low currents. A clean tip was required to fire up without arc wandering or coating the tungsten with oxides making it good for one start only. Something I learned from a welder repair tech. many years ago was to touch the tungsten to the part - discharging a starting capacitor. I do this by habit now.

Miller Aerowaves are kind of the "benchmark" in the aerospace industry these days. Many shops locally have these, the Syncrowaves are considered outdated, but I disagree on that point. My little Thermal Arc peewee starts at very low amps (which is what I use it for) easy and smooth. Usually I am in the range of 10 to 30 amps or so, sometimes less. No problems with 1/16" 2% thoriated. I consider it's starting cababilites better than most of the "real" machines I used back when I was welding production.
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 03-14-2003 01:11

I think Aerowaves are seen as an aerospace benchmark by Miller Sales and advertising staffers.

I've visited Boieng as well as DoD Depot level facilities, and have Collegues at all the Major Airlines, Lockheed, and GE. I know who uses them and where they collect dust. Most welders refuse to work with the things. Engineers like them for automated powersources. But as accuratly stated above. A good journyman can put out welds of the highest quality with any good square wave.

They are a very expensive and very shiney toy in most cases, and a gem in the very few cases that require the unique vairable amplitude an aerowave can produce on AC.

Its a machine that is easy to commend and criticize

Parent - By TRC (***) Date 03-14-2003 02:34
Thank you all for your contributions, you've been a BIG help. I think I'll consider the 350 Syncrowave as the supplement (ha ha) for the 330. If I get into a lot of AC work that requires < 30amps I'll get a demo on a Dynasty. Take care and keep the torch burning!
Parent - - By brande (***) Date 03-16-2003 06:21
Like any machine, especially a tig machine-you got to live with it a while.
That said, you will really appreciate the newer tig units available today, if you are fussy about your welding.
The old 330 ABP was a very good tig machine on DC. Spit tungsten like a machine gun on AC, however. (Got the x-rays to prove!!)
Because of the 3 position range switch, lo amp work was,at times,challenging.

I made a living with a Syncrowave 250 for the past 15 years. Really liked it. This winter, I bought a Dynasty 300 DX (accountant said I had to spend some money!-boy, did I spend some money!!)

I have found the Dynasty very good down low. I have been playing with the balance and frequency controls to shape the arc on AC-I still have a way to go on this. Running AC on a pointed tungsten gets some getting used to-but it works!!
The pulser on this machine is also great benefit.

I guess what I am trying to say here-all the little tips and tricks you learned on your 330 are no longer needed with the new inverter based tig machines like the Dynasty and Aerowave. They offer a level of control only dreamed about earlier. AC welding is as easy as DC.

Do you need an Aerowave? Can't say. Remember, too that the Aerowave is not really a big machine, amp wise. It is still only a 300 amp machine when run on three phase. It is only slightly bigger than the Dynasty, a 250 amp machine when connected to three phase. This power difference can often be made up by choosing the proper gas mixture of argon/helium.

Seems to me, FWIW, that the Dynasty is more of a manual machine and the Aerowave is more suited to automatic type welding. Just my opinion, though.

Find a good weld supply with a demo room. Run the Dynasty a while-I'm sure you will like!!

Hope this helps


Parent - By TRC (***) Date 03-26-2003 01:22
I finally had a demo on a 300 Dynasty. It was with the Miller road show. They have a really neat set up, for those of you who haven't had the opportunity to see this rig! I found the Dynasty to be no comparison to a Syncrowave on the bottom end. I was trying to get a 1/8 fillet on .10 6061. Of course it took some trying but I was able to get a little smaller than 1/8!!! We had to crank up the zoomies to get there and yes it does require ear plugs. The claims about being better on heavy section is also very true.
The Miller rig also has a 350 Syncrowave in the same booth so comparing one to the other was simple. The 350 didn't come close. I'm not bashing square waves, we know how good they are but the fillets that I did with it were unacceptable- to big.
On the 300 we turned the negative side up to 90% on the balance control and ran the frequency control up to 250. It almost duplicated DCEN straight helium when used on Al.
Once again thank you all for your contributions and keep the torch burning- Ted.
Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / AERO WAVE

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