Gerald, if I recall you are a new instructor? Please forgive me if I am incorrect. With that in mind, if you become a test facility, I recommend not testing those who haven't completed all of your training.
The reputation of your credential is potentially at stake anytime a guy off the street comes in, gets "certified", and then goes out in industry and can't produce. Same for the student, with or without prior experience, who comes in and "just wants to get certified".
If the guy can't read a basic print, do math accurately, do basic layout, run a torch and air arc in all positions, select consumables and set up powers sources, and the like, that cert may mean little. Yet smaller job and production shops, maintenance shops, and the like frequently have an (unrealistic) expectation that a certification means the welder possesses general competence as a metal worker, not just competence making one particular type of relatively easy weld.
The reputation of your credential is vital to the success of your students, and some of those guys off the street can be quick to say "I got certified at ....(your school)" while failing to add "but I never actually completed any training there".
Bad enough are the guys who come in, fail out or drop out, and then apply for or get a job claiming "I took welding up at the college", failing to mention "but I failed out". It happens.
In addition to the ethical issues with using a state funded facility to compete with private industry as an open-to-the-public test house, testing off the street or testing non-completing students puts credentialed competition out in the field that your students who put out the effort to complete a formal education will now have to compete with for jobs. Glutting an area with "certified welders" can also have an effect of driving down wage potential for your graduates.
These are things I became more aware of since becoming educator.
Hey Blaster,
I am new to a full time position as an instructor but have been teaching a 8 to 16 hours a week at night for a few years now. Have tested a few welders though in construction, fabrication, and educational situations. I have mo\ixed emotions about the ATF and hope to learn more at the upcoming conference.
I have a ton of thoughts about the whole "certified" thing. Some are listed in no specific order below.
1) If someone thinks a "cert" means you need to be able to do things other than what you were tested for then someone somewhere is completely in the dark about what a welder performance qualification test is. It means exactly what is says where the individual signing the "cert" has signed.
2) Often times a company or other organization thinks that a welder who has met the requirement of a code has some secret knowledge of how to weld everything in the world and is supposed to be better than the "non certified welders".
3) The Cert means little in many cases and in some cases knowing how to lay out a perpendicular line using only a piece of string and soapstone is meaningless too. Each industry, Company, foreman, coworker has their own ideas of what they need. Its a shame very few of them have the knowledge, skill, or desire, to verify it for themselves.
4) Based on my experience the ability to pass a standard welder performance qualification test reflects little on real world ability to weld. Its an entry level kinda thing. I also think we shouldn't have to take them every time we change contractors or even stay with the same contractor at a different plant. Sometimes all of our QC stuff is making a big to do about nothing. I have tested some of the same welders 4 times in three months. What a waste of money and time just to make some engineer or project manager think we are all the greatest since we test our welders before each job. Surgeons don't have to test before each job and I know what we do pales in comparison.
5) Contractors and Employers should provide specific requirements for their needs as far as welder skills go. If an organization can thoroughly train for those needs and has a pair big enough to put in writing that the individual meets those needs then they should.
6) Companies are going wild listing requirements for "certificates" or "degrees" in welding while community colleges are placing ads for instructors with degrees and 2 years of experience. Kinda crazy. I think that's where many of the bad reputations are coming from.
Many other thoughts squirm around in my head too. I do think about some of your points. I have got alot to learn about the "Business End" of teaching people to weld. I think testing labs have been doing the same thing that ATF's are doing except with their own quality systems and procedures. Some of them have good reputations, and some have bad reputations.
Have a good one and thanks for the thought provoking statements.
Gerald
Many good points there. Personally, your point number1 I think is probably the stickiest of wickets. As I am sure you have observed, it is unfortunately the way things are among a significant part of the metal working field and maintenance fields.
Student success and program reputation with the school educative board and the board of trustees of the college (who may know little if anything about trade work, much less welding specifically) are vital to maintaining adequate funding levels and reasonable class sizes.
These administrators and directors of the college have their opinions formed in large part through interaction with local business owners / leaders who employ or who have employed folks who claimed affiliation with the training program. Unfortunately some of these owners / leaders fit your description, first sentence of point 1, to a T.
It can be frustrating. I tested guys off the street for quite a few years, only because my supervisor wanted me to do it. I was later allowed to stop. What a relief. It seemed 90% of the guys were no where close to being able to pass, and most had not a clue what test it was they wanted to take or what the standards would be. I would thoroughly explain the instructions and expectations, let them warm up and get familiar with the equipment, and then almost every time have them walk out recognizing they weren't ready to test, or they would test and fail. What a huge waste of time and resources... Time many schools do not compensate the instructor for, inspire of the fact it can't be done during class time - at least not without robbing enrolled students of their instructor face time.
Best of luck whatever you decide to do... Just hoping to provide some useful food for thought.
Rod
Thanks Rod. I appreciate any info and experiences you can share. I have a great deal to learn.
There is much more to education than education.
I have provided Welder Performance Qualification Testing for my students who have met the requirements for me to do so. A few of them have had the opportunity to witness some "off the street" welders who wanted to "get certified". In ALL cases (3-5 people I think) the street welders walked away probably not feeling as good about themselves as before they entered and the welders in class who had reached the point of being able to test were quite proud of their accomplishments.
Any though is welcome. I would love to see more discussion related to education. I have setup facebook and linkedin pages/groups but not many outside of this forum seem to want to discuss much. So your comments and any others are greatly appreciated.
Gerald Austin
Topic Welders and Inspectors / Education & Training / Welding Education, Skills, and Certification in July ?
Congrats Gerald!
