Boiler install

By js55

Date 06-19-2014 12:19

This is a question for boiler design. Not a welding forum.

By lo-hi

Date 06-19-2014 15:04 Edited 06-19-2014 15:18

Well I guess none of the welders on this site have ever worked on steam piping. It was more of a general trades question than a design. People talk about welding on a lot of different things. Questions about boats, pipelines, and other assorted welding projects does not mean your designing them.

By js55

Date 06-19-2014 15:53

Pressure limits on valves and 'how bad it can get' are neither general trades questions nor questions typical of welders.
I've been involved in the fabrication and installation of pipe for steam service for almost 40 years, and I have never been asked to evaluate the pressure ratings of valves or how bad it can get. Design considerations have never been my responsibility. I simply made the point that you may not receive the answers you are looking for in this forum.

By lo-hi

Date 06-19-2014 16:15

The, how bad can it get part, was directed to the inspector part. I also have worked as a welder for 35 years and do not design power plants or steam systems. This particular system will operate between 15 and 20 lbs. That is the blow off pressure on a radiator cap. If you have done this for 40 years and never discussed a system or install with another welder then you must be a very quite person.

By js55

Date 06-19-2014 17:11

lo-hi,
LOL!!!!
You would best be served by carefully reading my post and comprehending what I actually said before commenting.
And while I can appreciate sarcasm, a rush to sarcasm while missing the mark is ineffective.
It seems a rather strange tactic to immediately launch into sarcasm against someone with a comment to direct you to where you may get more effective assistance.
And if you wish to disparage my experience you might consider that you are the one in here asking for help. Seems as though your '35' years would have yielded your answer had you not been so 'quiet'. :grin:

By lo-hi

Date 06-21-2014 01:48 Edited 06-21-2014 12:31

I appreciate your confidence that 35 years might have made me wise enough to answer my own questions. You are part of a very exclusive club. My original post was to have had some shop talk about working on steam systems. My wisdom failed me in the presentation, but you have given me the courage to press on. Thank you for recognizing my sarcasm, as I am but a grasshopper among the masters. The installation went well, although there was some confusion about 1st valve or 2nd before code is required. 1st valve won and off we went. The strangest thing about all of this is, after all the critical work is done the janitor can be in charge.

By 46.00

Date 06-21-2014 03:05

I have that feeling regularly, you get used to it!

By 522029

Date 06-19-2014 23:46

For seven years I did "from the first valve out" steam line welding. 350 psi. I cannot answer your question. The engineer did that.

Griff

By pipewelder_1999 (****)

Date 06-19-2014 15:36

The NBIC handles rules for existing boilers requiring repair and modification however ASME Boiler and pressure vessel code Section I addresses power boilers. The rules are contained within those codes. One other thing to consider is your individual state. Some states may have requirements that exceed those of ASME Sec I or the NBIC.

In most cases the 1st valve is a joint ASME SEC I/ASME B31.1 . Which would require the contractor performing the work to be an ASME/NBIC "R" stamp holder. The suitability of a specific valve for a boiler is something that should be decided by the designer of the system.

If no 1st valve was supplied with the unit then in my opinion this is a weld that would fall under the requirements of an A/S/R stampholder (depending upon the exactly what you are doing) .

After the 2nd valve on systems with more than one boiler is usually the end of "code stamp" requirements for the contractor. Still ASME rules, but no requirement for stamping.

With all of the above being said. I am a welder. I strongly suggest you look into the requirements as stated in your state or other jurisdictional laws regarding working on boilers. Normally every state has a "Boiler Inspector" Call them.

I guess the whole thing that is disturbing is that you are asking this. I would think someone in your organization would have this figured out.

The question warrants much more than I can explain. I don't expect the QC Manager or the Engineer to be able to reach 4 tubes deep in a superheater and make a repair in a mirror, and they shouldn't expect me to tell them what the tubes should be made of.

You can get your start on understanding some of these complexities by looking at these graphics.

http://cstools.asme.org/csconnect/PDF/R010125.pdf . These may or may not be current.

Have a great day.

Gerald Austin

By lo-hi

Date 06-19-2014 15:56

Thanks for the reply. This is pretty much what I told the contractor I showed up. There is only 1 boiler so a ASME valve as a first connection will get me rolling. I'm a one rig welder and weld for a few mechanical outfits. Certs are ASME sec 9 and current. I know the r stamp rules and they don't just apply to boilers, as welding on a tagged water tank will hang you just as bad. A buddy of mine was at a mill and was asked to weld a 1/2'' stud on the face of a sawdust boiler, 2 to 5 psi max. About 4 months later when the insurance inspector came through he asked for the r stamp. Sad face's were everywhere. Maybe I could have asked the question better, didn't mean to freak anybody out. Thanks again

By pipewelder_1999 (****)

Date 06-19-2014 19:01

Yup. I have been involved in some of them sad face events myself.

I wasn't really sure what you were asking but figured I'd spew out something just to get thee creative juices flowing.

You ought to look into getting your own R Stamp. One WPS, One Welder, One Quality Manual, Sub Out other services (Engineering/NDE) if needed, and you the man. Of course you need to make the obligatory donation to the "Code gods" . It may be hard to do. I have never been through anything other than renewal audits but a few of the AI's I have spoken with indicated there were 1 man R stamp holders.

Have a great day

Gerald

By lo-hi

Date 06-19-2014 19:29

Thought about it some time ago but the cost and paperwork seemed overwhelming. One of the facility's I worked at had a pinhole leak in a large water heater with a steam coil. It had a tag and I passed. The r stamp crew came in and installed a wed-o-let over it and put in a plug. Essentially a fillet weld attachment. Not sure whether I could have gotten away with that or not as far as my certs go. Our state only has a couple of boiler inspectors, its the insurance company's that will get ya.