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Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / tempered alloys in tensile pulling
- - By MRWeldSoCal (***) Date 08-20-2014 17:31
When heat, for instance, on Aluminum can take away from the strengh of its ultimate tensile how does one quage its tensile strengh in the as welded condition?  Im pulling some 6061-T6 pulls and they broke outside the weld about 1/4" away, one broke at 27+K and one at 33+K  neither hit the base metal tenisle of 42K.  The person welding the PQR used a helium argon mixture.  only 5% Helium.  Ive read on ESAB's webiste that in the welded condition 6061-t6 welded with 4043 which is what they used is 27K tensile.  Ive done pletny of PQR's where the aluminum made the base metal tensile easily, mostly its a fine line with thinner sheet.  Any education insite on this would be appreciated.  I understand spending too much time welding can weaken the base metal.
Thanks all hope your all doing well

Jordan
Parent - - By OBEWAN (***) Date 08-20-2014 18:53 Edited 08-20-2014 18:58
Do you have access to the material certs and/or supplier test reports for the material lot that you are testing?

Are you welding to a code?

If so, what is the CTQ (Critical to Quality) requirement for tensile strength?

Typically, specimens that break outside of the weld zone are preferred.

Your issue of concern might require the designer to evaluate the suitability for service, or a process change to improve the results.
Parent - By MRWeldSoCal (***) Date 08-20-2014 20:02
I do have material certs and the sheet is 42K, the code is to D1.2.
Parent - By Plasma56 (**) Date 08-21-2014 20:17
Hi Jordan,

-I understand spending too much time welding can weaken the base metal.

While I wouldn't be brave enough to say thats the case with out a reasonable doubt, I would say yes in the spectrum of the statement. From the view of a welder, I can say in most instances, the longer you sit and play with the puddle the more trouble you'll get into. On its most basic level, solid to fluid to solid.

Sound like you have a very wide haz in the material. Maybe two of them? Over heating during the welding process could bring this about. Think protected by shielding and heat transfered outside the shielding. These areas will both be cooling? Who know for sure reading and guessing?

And the person doing the welding, some pass with a 65% some with a 85%. Some pass because the coupon didn't break that day. And some do it because they can. So I can't speak to that either except to say it gets complicated.

The posting of the gas mixture was good. Adds to the possibility of a lengthy educational response but no sense in boring you to death either. Suffice to say, the gas mixture does effect welding heat input and travel speed.

If nothing changes picture this and think what is the outcome?

SolidliquidsolidliquidsolidSolidliquidsolidliquidsolid
Solidliiiiiiqqqquid Solid,Liiiiiggggggguidsolid.Liquid solidliiquid solid

I'm not able to offer more then welding advice on the matter. But from what you mentioned, think about how the heat is being placed into the material, could it be placed in quicker if the welder was more skilled?   In my experience yes. Blame him for your poor results.

You mention tensiles on thinner sheets...case in point. Thinner the material the greater skills needed.
Tell you what, you find that welder, give him a slap on the helmet and tell him to smarten up or you will replace him with a banana eating chimp...Then run like hell.

As much as I blame the welder, its because he is in this instance an easy target. The problem is actually in education of the welder, and those learning the welding trade as part of their job duties and functions.
But I like the way your thinking on the matter.

Best regards.
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 08-21-2014 20:57
I honestly can't think of any engineering practices applied to welding that would have the expectation of a welded 6061 T6 coupon retaining it's original T6 condition (mechanicals) post weld... 

Plasma said "Suffice to say, the gas mixture does effect welding heat input and travel speed."

I will say... gas mixture *CAN* effect heat input and travel speed.

If you add or increase %He in your shield gas the energy at the arc increases....  Does the operator use to his advantage?  Or does the operator do the same thing he did before hoping that a different result will occur because the gas was changed.

Stopwatch required for trials...  Both GMAW and GTAW can increase travel speed, and by doing this reduce HAZ and improve tensiles.

From a weld management or QC standpoint... Getting through the trials mean nothing beyond pencil whipped compliance if the practices on the floor don't change....  So what if the tensiles pass when you are in the lab..  The welded joints will NOT be as engineered if the shop floor does not employ whatever worked in the lab.

If it's hit and miss in the lab.... Think hard before moving toward production.
Parent - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 08-23-2014 00:51 Edited 08-23-2014 16:25
"I honestly can't think of any engineering practices applied to welding that would have the expectation of a welded 6061 T6 coupon retaining it's original T6 condition (mechanicals) post weld..."  Well I say "To infinity and beyond!" with the help of a filler metal...

Here's an application that was successful in achieving 40KSI average and ranging between 36 & 44 KSI!

Read the article that was written by Tony Anderson in the May/June 2014 issue of "Practical Welding Today" regarding a 6061 - T6 Aluminium frame that had to go through some extreme temperature changes as one would find in space... During the testing of a critical component of the James Webb Space Telescope and known in scientific circles as the successor to the Hubble Telescope, some amazing results were discovered from using an alternative to 4043 and 4643 Aluminium... An interesting article indeed and a new Aluminium filler - 4943 to do the job... the article can be found in this link below:

http://www.thefabricator.com/article/consumables/to-infinity-and-beyond-with-the-help-of-a-filler-metal

Enjoy the reading fella's!:grin::lol::wink::cool:

Respectfully,
Henry
- - By 803056 (*****) Date 08-20-2014 21:54
If you read and review the requirements of AWS D1.2 you will see the minimum acceptable as welded tensile strength is 24 ksi. The reduced section tensile specimen typically fails in the HAZ.

Don't have a copy of AWS D1.2? Then either buy a copy or limit your work to the codes you do have access to. You can't play the game if you don't know the rules. That is just as true for the contractor as it is the inspector.

Best regards -Al
Parent - - By MRWeldSoCal (***) Date 08-22-2014 22:53
I understand that Al, The question was more directed to how close can you get it to its normal sheet tensile.  Since its "as welded" Could you in theory get so much higher in strengh if you were more careful?
Parent - By 803056 (*****) Date 08-23-2014 04:00 Edited 08-23-2014 04:02
Short version: The 6061 is a heat treatable alloy. The alloying elements go into solution at high temperature, it is than quenched to form a supersaturated solution. The alloy is aged at a lower temperature to permit some of the constituents to come out of solution within the atomic lattice where it strains the atomic lattice causing an increase in strength. Welding overages the alloy system allowing the alloying constituents to precipitate to the grain boundaries where the system is weakened. Even if the alloy is reheat treated, it typically does not attain its original properties. Typically the issue is the HAZ, not the weld.  

Stir friction welding suffers the least degradation because the metal is never melted.

Al
Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / tempered alloys in tensile pulling

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