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Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / Compact SAW Head
- - By Steve.E (**) Date 08-31-2014 06:10
Hi guys ,good to see this forum is still going strong. My question is do any of you fine fellows know of a good sub arc head for welding in smallish diameter pipe. We currently use a Lincoln K114 squitgun mounted on a boom however we constantly have problems with the air fed flux system blocking in the small tube in the gun head .any help or suggestions would be much appreciated .
Parent - By Plasma56 (**) Date 09-01-2014 04:58
Hey Steve,
Not to say this will be of much help, but sometimes the gimic of what the factory has created isn't the gem of production for all applications and you have to improvise.  I would suggest the fist place to look however would be to see if you could purchase a finer grit flux mixture. That could solve the problem but it could be solved by switching to a larger nozzle to better deliver a larger grit size through the existing equipment? Second, ensure your flux is kept dry to avoid packing. Depending on flux type, storage conditions, humidity could be an issue causing packing to occur.  Finally, the flux delivery could be modified to direct coverage over the weld zone instead of through the factory assembly. Best I have to offer.
Parent - By js55 (*****) Date 09-02-2014 14:51
Steve,
How smallish of diameter? And why SAW?
- - By Steve.E (**) Date 09-03-2014 11:12
Hey Plasma thanks for the reply ,unfortunately because of weld procedure restraints its not an easy thing to change flux types and from experience we have found the finer the flux the more problematic :(  I think your solution of a modified delivery system is a good idea . Hi JS sorry I was a bit sketchy with detail but it  would be nice to be able to weld comfortably in around 12 inch  ID barrels and run at least 3/32 wire. And why SAW ? Submerged arc is always our preferred method of welding, we specialise in heavy walled pressure vessels SAW gives us high quality welds with good deposit rates and in my opinion the best operator appeal.
Parent - - By OBEWAN (***) Date 09-03-2014 12:21
Where does that air supply that feeds the flux come from? I only have experience with gravity fed flux hoppers.

If it is a compressed air supply my first concern would be tied to the quality of the air- how dry is it, and does it contain oils?

Or, does Lincoln provide the air system?  Maybe with a low pressure system these concerns would be N/A though - then too, there are many different designs for "air dryers" that can be had for a sometimes hefty capital investment.

Sorry if I have thrown the discussion off track.
Parent - - By fschweighardt (***) Date 09-03-2014 14:39
If you are working on the outside of the pipe, head size shouldnt be too big of a deal
Parent - - By js55 (*****) Date 09-03-2014 15:36
He is using what we used to call the Lincoln K gun. Primarily intended for semi auto use although we set them up as cheap machine operations. I hate them for semi auto. May as well go FCAW. Lincoln used to provide the whole kit and caboodle. I suppose they still do. These K guns are an excellent way to get into SAW cheap.
As for the head, if he is doing heavy wall it can sometimes be tough getting down in there and position the head as needed. There are more specialized narrow groove type heads out there but they involve leading flux dispensers that do not work as well for small bore pipe.
However, I wouldn't operate a K gun with 3/32 wire. The big wire doesn't move easy through the curved head. Especially  on small bore pipe. I'd use 1/16" or 5/64". We've had this discussion in other threads, but you actually get more deposition from the smaller wires through I2R heating and you can control the puddle easier.
Parent - - By fschweighardt (***) Date 09-03-2014 15:52
I've seen more than a few of the K114's set up on booms, etc.  Rarely needed, but it was cheap for they guys to make.  I would say that that way the most of pipe welds can get made with a std head.  Hell I've had guys doing 4" pipe with 1/16 wire.  Worked great, just needed some flux retention brushes to hold the flux pile where it needed to be.

I had one guy with the narrow gap nozzle, but he was on big vessels, and the flux dispensing was pretty easy
Parent - By js55 (*****) Date 09-03-2014 16:55
Fred,
But its more difficult to smoke a cigarette when you have to hold a flux retention brush. :smile:
Parent - By js55 (*****) Date 09-03-2014 17:03
We used narrow groove heads for flexibility, for example to make it easier to run fast small beads against the side wall to help even out a layer.
Parent - - By Plasma56 (**) Date 09-06-2014 06:39
Hey Steve, You have discovered the three keys to choosing the SAW process! Quality, deposition and a very comfortable operator. Bravo buddy.
I was thinking about your flux delivery and the process. Modifying the delivery system, could also control flux loss, be made adaptable to different pipe sizes as well?
While I wonder what the boys at Lincoln R&D might have on the shelf specific to the application you mentioned, if you come up with a creative solution, please share a picture.
Regards.
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Parent - By Steve.E (**) Date 09-08-2014 07:55 Edited 09-14-2014 05:15
No problem Plasma :) I'm working on one now for our ESW strip overlay unit when I get a pic I will post .

Don't laugh but I used bits n pieces laying around the shop, thing is it works
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- - By Steve.E (**) Date 09-14-2014 05:52 Edited 09-14-2014 05:55
http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=3&ved=0CCgQFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.euromarket.bg%2Fbg%2Fproducts-download-pdf%3Ffile%3D93cd9bf318de41da1b0a5881d93b22529a67a4b8.pdf&ei=niwVVNPqNMK2uAT97oCYAQ&usg=AFQjCNGgih6ARoKLOf05j9EwKeJt48IYRA

I found this trolling the interweb for a camera system ,check out the puppy on page 20 its going on my wish list for sure  :)
Parent - By Plasma56 (**) Date 09-16-2014 06:51
Wow! Thats cool. I dig the unique application. I have a better idea of what your facing now that the picture is shown. Very cool.
I have to tell you, I have a folder that my screen saver goes to, those pictures are in it. When I was instructing, I would have saved them for inclusion in a power point presentation. Those guys are lurking and thanks on their behalf for sharing.

I attached a picture to my previous post, I think I did? I did a demo on the fly of the similarities of the GMAW process to SAW. I do have a video, to big to post. But with the gas shut off, nozzle removed, gun taped in position to a radiograph, I guessed on parimeters. I used a empty ice tea bottle and poured the flux. Stick out was around 1 1/4" with wire cast ruling that factor in the .035 wire. Wire helix gave it a slight stir as it progressed. While shy on penetration, some what underfilled,  she was ductile and bent in one piece go figure? Got lucky that day.
I did the same demo with straight sand if your curious of the results?

I might mention, I knew an old welder years ago who made his own Sub Arc to rebuild/build up worn equipment brake drums in his garage. You gave me a warm fuzzy feeling with your pictures.
I told my students at the time, if they played the game right, they could weld vessels in there garage. They looked at me like I was nuts. Maybe so? But I don't think so.

And I like your wish list lol. Thats quite the arm. Technology has come along way baby.  In this day and age, the thinker gets the gold ring. While you don't mention where in the shop food chain you sit, I like the way your thinking! While my age has me a bit skeptic when it comes to tech advancements, the advancements benefit all. The real time monitoring during welding operations if viewed with a trained eye is a score to avoiding rework challenges.
Now, if they mount them in a welding helmet to track eye movements...we can solve another great mystery.
Thanks again Steve.

Noel
Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / Compact SAW Head

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