SMAW low hydroge root

By OBEWAN

Date 10-01-2014 12:55

Isn't Bohler a stainless supplier?

And, please try to keep the forum non-commercial.

By Lawrence (*****)

Date 10-01-2014 13:48

.

::::::::::snort

.

By kcd616

Date 10-02-2014 03:04

thank you Lawrence :wink:

By 357max

Date 10-01-2014 15:43

Bohler Tyssen does make low carbon & low alloy SMAW electrodes. Try the E7016 or the E7015 which does not have iron powder and therefore the weld pool is not as fluid as the E7018. All manufacturers have various offerings of the various AWS classifications each with a different weld pool fluidity. Try each and decide. Do Not Rely on the salesperson's hyperbole!!!

By welderbrent (*****)

Date 10-02-2014 03:22

Interesting question: low hydrogen SMAW electrodes for root passes?? :confused:

So, do they make low hydrogen SMAW electrodes differently for root passes compared to fill and/or cover passes? :roll:

Let's break this down:
1) Yes Bohler makes Low Hydrogen SMAW electrodes.
2) SMAW low hydrogen electrodes can be used successfully to weld root passes. Pretty easily actually.
3) Therefore, Bohler makes Low Hydrogen SMAW electrodes for root passes.

But, is there a particular reason for the question? Application, code, material, that is presenting you with a problem?

Or, are you a salesman promoting Bohler electrodes?

Personally, I find Bohler electrodes slightly less than satisfactory. Others will disagree. Others will strongly agree.

But, for myself, I'll take Lincoln Excalibur any day of the week. For root passes, fill passes, and cover passes. Flat, vertical, overhead, and Horizontal. We buy Bohler only in an emergency when Lincoln is not available and can't get it ordered quick enough. That's why I keep plenty on hand. Don't depend on the local welding suppliers to get exactly what I need exactly when I need it.

He Is In Control, Have a Great Day, Brent

By OBEWAN

Date 10-02-2014 13:22

It might depend on how fast they need to get going..there are sometimes many factors to consider...

It's all about money...maybe a wire feeder could be used.

Maybe the forum needs to post some guidelines for questions submitted to the forum:

1.) Material, thickness, and joint design -- and applicable code if required..
2.) Process used...
3.) What stage the project is at - WPQ (qualification) or WPS (production) if required...

By ssbn727 (*****)

Date 10-03-2014 01:08

Many have already made numerous suggestions, including myself to no avail Steve. :roll:

By rjtinsp (*)

Date 10-03-2014 03:13

Snowfall,

Are you asking about a low hydrogen SMAW electrode for "open root" pass welding? I'm just asking because almost any electrode can be used for welding a root pass but not all can effectively weld an open root pass. Just giving you the benefit of the doubt that there was more to your question.

Ramon

By Joey

Date 10-03-2014 08:00

I'm not trying to promote a manufacturer.
But here in smokey, we are used to this type of low hydrogen electrode meant for the root.
You may google this brand LB-52U made by Kobelco

By 357max

Date 10-03-2014 17:00

Just for practice if a transformer rectifier machine is available, especially a squarewave ac output, use that squarewave ac with the dig control at maximum. Good learning tool to read the weld pool. Then switch over to DCEP and practice and practice.

By dbigkahunna (****)

Date 10-03-2014 17:29 Edited 10-03-2014 17:32

Using SMAW for open root the Kobe LB-52U is a 7016 rod that was engineered for easier OR welding. When you see the difference in the arc on the Kobe it is just nicer.
Then you switch to the 7018 for the fill and cap. Read the manufacturers instructions on the rod. They say unsurpassed penetration bead appearance and I will testify to that.
If you are doing ORLH it is the rod to use. I have only seen this rod used on OR and attempts with the domestic manufacturer's rods. I am sure there are many who have passed the open root test with Excalibur LH, but they never tested for me. I saw one guy who used Hobart who passed, but he was the only one.
If a job is on the line, run the bead with the Kobe. And if you have a old Lincoln SA200 somewhere on that machine is a place where if you get the land and gap right and feather your tacks just so, it will look like TIG. It will take 2-3 coupons to find it, but when you do it will amaze you how pretty that Kobe bead looks.

By welderbrent (*****)

Date 10-03-2014 21:16

Interesting sir. Thank you for increasing my understanding of some of the differences in what is available and it's application.

I will try to tuck that away for future reference.

Hopefully the OP will see it and understand as well.

He Is In Control, Have a Great Day, Brent

By ssbn727 (*****)

Date 10-03-2014 22:50 Edited 10-03-2014 23:44

Kobelco does make some excellent consumables but not everybody can get them at a competitive price yet, a fair number of "Indy" Welding distributors will special order it for you if price is not an issue, or the contract docs calls for that brand specifically... I'm not trying to sell them either... I'm just describing my own experiences with their products...

Atom Arc used to be the best IMHO but, lately the flux isn't the same as in the old days (70's 80's) so, I don't know about them these days but the last time I burned of their E-7018 1/8 & 5/32 electrodes, I knew something just wasn't right from what I was used to experiencing with that brand... I wonder who owns them nowadays??? oh yeah, ESAB does... :surprised:

Now that Lincoln Excalibur? is a substantial improvement compared to what they used to produce as E-7018... :eek:

I heard they came out with a "Millenium" brand of E-7018H4R that's supposed to be the "cat's meow..." Hmmmm, more sales hype if you ask me... Has anybody tried this brand of Lincoln electrodes yet? They're supposed to be up to 50% less moisture pick up than ESAB's Atom Arc... They more than likely mean that under lab conditions, the results are what they claim to be... Lincoln also has a low hydrogen downhill SMAW electrode for pipe but, I'm not sure if it's to be used for open roots because I remember when they first came out, they were to be used for the fill and cap passes instead... Then again that was many years ago so this might have changed since... What do you think DBK?

Speaking of Low Hydrogen Electrodes, here's an enlightening and interesting article that if one has not read it yet, then please do so:

http://www.jflf.org/pdfs/papers/keyconcepts5.pdf

Here's another one reprinted in the FabTech web site that was originally written for the Welding Journal:

http://www.fabtechexpo.com/controlling-hydrogen-induced-cracking/

The Kobelco consumables brochure .pdf...Go to pages 15 thru 17 of 24 total pages where you will find the SMAW Electrode DBK was describing:

http://www.kobelco.co.jp/english/welding/files/kwt_special_mild_and_490MPa_2nd_edition.pdf

This one is an interesting one for sure:

http://wiki.iploca.com/display/rtswiki/9.10+Mainline+construction+stages

And this one too:

http://wiki.iploca.com/display/rtswiki/9.+Welding

I'm going to stop here because I got to go eat Dinner:

http://agwholesaleco.com/atlantapipeline1/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Pipeliners%20-%20Recent%20Challenges%20in%20Pipeline%20Construction%201-9-12.pdf

I'm starving! :lol:

Edit: I forgot about this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wjz8eh3uxkU

Enjoy!

Respectfully,
Henry

By Blaster (***)

Date 10-04-2014 00:53

My most recent order of Excalibur has horribly fragile flux. Don't know what Lincoln was thinking with that.

By kcd616

Date 10-04-2014 19:44

tell the truth
I like hobart lo-hy,
just IMHO
when I bought for big jobs bought lincoln
everybody liked it
hate to give a companies free ad time
sincerely,
Kent

By Blaster (***)

Date 10-05-2014 03:28

I am very fond of Hobart arc and slag follow characteristics myself, but I switched as I got tired of electrodes that were excessively coated in flux, IE over the tip and/or where the electrode holder clamps. Plus I had reoccurring problems with non-concentric flux coating on 3/32 electrodes.

I think I am going back to ESAB.

By ssbn727 (*****)

Date 10-04-2014 21:59

Hi Blaster,

Like with anything else that's mass produced... Sometimes you a get a bad batch... For example:I remember many moons ago when I worked for an "indy" welding distributor in NYC, and this customer we had regularly ordered Lincoln "Jet Weld" LH-70 = E-7018 HR4 by the pallet load which weighed roughly a ton and 1/2, or 3,000+ lbs... 85% of the 1/8" diameter electrodes were damaged, or in unacceptable condition so we had to get it back from them, and shortly after alerting the regional Lincoln sales manager, Lincoln drop shipped them a replacement pallet the next day gratis of course... But they also wanted to take a good look @ the 1st pallet to try and figure out by investigating what went wrong in either their raw materials, production, QA/QC procedures, or the handling of the finished product during packaging, shipping/handling to and from their warehouses... Lincoln went ahead, and picked up the defective electrodes, and shipped them back to the factory as well as their headquarters in Cleveland, OH and we waited for their conclusions of the investigation...

They isolated the root cause for the unacceptable quality condition of the electrodes to the purchasing of inferior quality raw materials for the flux coating and QA/QC... They also found out afterwards that the 1st pallet fell off one of the forklifts @ the holding warehouse where they were initially shipped to for regional storage... The end result was everybody was understanding about what actually occurred except for Lincoln of course and we didn't lose the customer... So, these things do happen on a tiny scale as in your case and @ only a slightly larger scale to my customer many moons ago... Btw, did you get a replacement of those defective electrodes?

Respectfully,
Henry

By Blaster (***)

Date 10-05-2014 03:42

Hi Henry

No, we are still using them. I only bought something like 1,000 or 1,200 pounds. Won't take too long to burn them up.

I know about spotty QC, like with the Hobart rod 3/32 Hobart rod that would periodically come in with non-concentric coating every few years. Drove my nuts! That lead me to ESAB, whose quality I have never had a problem with. Then I went to Lincoln for reasons not associated to electrode QC with ESAB. Now I think I may be going back to ESAB.