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Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / EWTh-1 Vs. EWTh-2
- - By jef1 Date 12-01-2014 15:51
Hi all,

I know that EWth-1 has approximately 1% thoria and EWth-2 has approximately 2% thoria.  What I don't know is the difference between the two when it comes to applications and characteristics.  Can anyone shed some light on the subject?

Thanks
Parent - - By Plasma56 (**) Date 12-01-2014 22:47
Hi Jef1,
Thoria alloy additions allow the tungsten to retain is sharpness and hardness as the current rises. The needle stays sharper longer. Energy stays focused. 2% is an improvement over 1% in those properties, so I'm told.
On a more simple note, when you you alloy its usually to enhance properties or improve something. The latest and greatest alloyed Tungsten electrodes are designed around Inverter welding Technology. Heck, knock the feathers off a magpie and it looks like a small chicken maybe? Well, when it comes to applying specifics, the efforts one puts forth usually bring about better results. Choosing a proper tungsten, sized to material type and thickness, not to mention power source type and gas shielding type or mix goes along way actually. But don't over think it to much. They will all carry current and work in a pinch.
But the right tool goes along way and even further if the guy doing the welding knows his stuff. This forum if searched offers a striking amount of information. Well, I don't think I offered up much for help? But I bet your wondering about magpie's tasting like chicken. I don't know.
Hey...good luck in your endeavors.
Parent - - By jef1 Date 12-02-2014 12:01
Thanks plasma,

That is the best answer I've gotten so far so thank you for your input.  I have studied welding for ten years now and I found that to be a very interesting question that I have never addressed before.  I tried posting on other forums as well as researching online and in the AWS body of knowledge with no success.  Oh well.

Good luck to you.
Parent - - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 12-03-2014 00:26 Edited 12-03-2014 09:59
"Weldcome" jef1 to the World's Greatest Welding Forum of the AWS!!!:grin::cool:

"In most applications, welders use tungsten that contains an emission-enhancing oxide such as Thorium, Cerium, or Lanthanum. These oxides naturally migrate from inside the tungsten to the heat at the point of the electrode, where they give off their oxide element in the arc, and leave a film of the metal alloy on the tip. This causes the electrode to have a different temperature at the tip based on the work function of that element. The oxides that are emitted at the tip serve to improve arc starting and stability. They also cause the electrode to provide the same level emission as pure tungsten at much lower temperatures. Lower temperatures improve the longevity of the tungsten and keep the grains within the tungsten smaller for improved arc stability. Thus, oxides are a very important part of tungsten. Each oxide has unique physical characteristics that affect tungsten performance. In addition, the technique used in manufacturing the tungsten will also affect its performance.

Manufacturing Variables: Grain Size and Structure:
Oxides migrate to the tip of the tungsten primarily along the boundaries or borders or these grains. It is much easier for the oxides to migrate from inside the tungsten to the tip on the grain boundaries than it is for them to migrate within the crystallized grains. In manufacturing the tungsten, smaller sized grains are better, because they produce more paths and therefore the oxides can more easily migrate to the tip. However, it is a difficult manufacturing process to minimize the size of the grains while maximizing the consistency of the oxide distribution and maintaining the proper quantity of oxides. This difficulty in the manufacturing process is the primary reason for the differences in tungsten performance quality that is produced by the different manufacturers.

During the extreme temperatures of welding, the grains have a tendency to combine with larger neighboring grains to form one large grain in a process called “grain growth.” However, if a continuous flow of oxides at the grain boundaries is maintained, this serves to surround the grains and keep them from combining. Thus, oxides are grain growth inhibitors. When tungsten runs out of oxides in any area, the grains combine readily, and the tungsten performs poorly because the oxides lack avenues to move to the surface.

Oxide Distribution and Size:
Oxide distribution is a key indicator of quality. Oxides should be distributed homogenously throughout the tungsten. Uneven distribution results in poor performance: areas with little or no oxides will tend to suffer from grain growth, whereas areas with too much oxide will tend to “bottleneck” and prevent the oxides from getting to the point. Higher quality oxides are smaller in size, which allows them to migrate to the tip easier.

Physical Characteristics of Different Oxides:
Electron Work Function (eV) - Work function is the energy needed to remove an electron from an atom, and it is measured in electron volts (eV). The lower the work function of an electrode, the lower the voltage necessary to strike an arc, thus the easier the arc starts. The oxides added to a tungsten serve to promote the electron emission by lowering the work function of the tungsten. The lower the eV for the oxide, the easier it will start. The metal work function is important, because upon emitting an oxide, the metal is left as a film on the tip. The lower the eV of the metal at the tip, the lower the temperature will be at the tip which will decrease grain growth and provide a constant flow of oxides and longer service life.

The more of an oxide added to tungsten, the lower the work function that tungsten will have, and thus the better it will arc start. A 2% Lanthanated tungsten will arc start more easily than a 1% Lanthanated tungsten (assuming they were made using the same manufacturing process). Density: Each oxide has a different density. Thus a 2% by weight thorium, cerium, or
lanthanum electrode will all have different amounts of oxides by volume. Although each material has 2% by weight of the oxides, a 2% Lanthanated tungsten has a significantly higher volume of oxides than 2% Thoriated tungsten to feed to the tip.

Note: Even if electrodes are the same type, electrodes of different manufacturers cannot be compared using only the work function and volume of oxides, because this comparison would
not take into account the important manufacturing variables such as grain size and structure of the oxide size and distribution. Therefore, the work function and oxide density numbers should only be used as a general guide. Testing is always the best way to determine which tungsten will be best for you.

The migration rate, or diffusion rate as it is often called, is the rate at which each of the different oxides naturally travels from inside the tungsten to the heat at the tip of the electrode. The evaporation rate is the rate at which the oxides separate from their metal component and are emitted at the tip of the electrode. The optimum-performing electrode is one that has a balance of good migration and evaporation rates. If the migration rate is slower than the evaporation rate, then there will be an inadequate amount of oxides arriving at the tip to maintain a consistent arc and the tungsten may be reduced to the performance level of pure tungsten. If the evaporation rate is slower than the migration rate, the oxides will be crowded at the point. If both of the rates are very high, welding properties at the beginning of welding will be great, but all of the oxides may be used up quickly."

There are figures and tables in the .pdf below with the url: diamondground.com/TugstenGuidebook2013.pdf and has all of what I posted and more... I suggest that anyone reading it should download the .pdf for reference...

http://www.diamondground.com/TungstenGuidebook2013.pdf

This link is for some information regarding the radioactive considerations in the use of thoriated  tungsten/wulfram electrodes.

http://www.iem-inc.com/information/radiation-sources/useful-radioactivity/welding-rods

Edit: Here's some Tungsten data from Pro-fusion and there's a wealth of information in this website to take advantage of:

http://www.pro-fusiononline.com/tungsten/

http://www.pro-fusiononline.com/feedback/articles.htm

http://www.pro-fusiononline.com/

Enjoy the reading!:eek::roll::smile::grin::lol::yell::twisted::yell::lol::wink::cool:

Respectfully,
Henry
Parent - - By jef1 Date 12-03-2014 12:41
Thank you for the information henry.  That was very informative and interesting. One would never know what goes into creating a truly great tungsten electrode just by looking around online.  Thank God for the AWS.  I appreciate you taking the time to gather the extra information for me as well.

Best Regards,
Jesse
Parent - By Blaster (***) Date 12-03-2014 20:59
It has been years since I have used 1%, but from memory, conducting manual welding on pipe at "normal" amperage levels, I don't recall any noting any noticeable difference in performance between 1% and 2%.
Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / EWTh-1 Vs. EWTh-2

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