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Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / oil soaked pre-war cast aluminum Indian casings
- - By Stringer (***) Date 12-09-2014 01:20
I fix oil soaked cast aluminum motorcycle parts for my guitar teacher (yes, I'm 60 but I still take guitar lessons after work on Friday at the local music store. I'm a hack, but I was a band kid and making music melts my butter).
I clean with ether and heat, ether and heat again with coarse die grinder as main tool, then a protocol of GTAW tacks with additional argon flooding as required and basically fight the cracks to a bitter death. Man, it's a fight. I've tried 4043 but I find 5356 the better alloy. Have not tried helium. Have not tried oven. The contamination is such a pain. I don't quit until I have unspeckled porosity free aluminum replacing the crack. These 40 mph parade bikes have the whole shebang of a pushrod engine sitting on a bolt going through cast aluminum and any mishap and they break out the housing walls.
Using Miller 350 xl with penetration/cleaning control set on full penetration. I know the extra etching from the cleaning control is a theoretical help, but I find this machine welds aluminum better in the full pen mode 100% of the time. Material prep is key and these old bike parts defy my cleaning efforts. I'd be grateful for any insight in taming oily cast aluminum.
Parent - - By welderbrent (*****) Date 12-09-2014 01:36
Stringer,

Are they disassembled? In other words, can you get to both sides? 

I have repaired a lot of older ones in my area and find that several work overs with acetone followed by a stainless wire brushing is a good start.  Then, I go over it from both sides, when possible, with the GTAW torch.  Back over with acetone and brush.  Then, a light groove on the inside with the die grinder and weld the first side, usually the inside that can't be seen later.  Then, go to the outside, grind and weld.  That weld usually comes out pretty clean.  Finish off the outside, then go back into the inside and try to clean it back out somewhat then weld again.

Sometimes with the cast it helps to run a 'buttering' pass down each side first and come back through with the bridge.  Helps with both impurities and cracks.  Used to do the racks for the bowling alley.  They were so much fun because of all the thickness changes and the alloys.  Finally had one that totally defeated me.  Could not fix it no matter what I tried.  Cracks just got worse.

I agree, I always had better luck with the 5356.

Good luck taming the shrew. 

He Is In Control, Have a Great Day,  Brent
Parent - - By FixaLinc (****) Date 12-11-2014 01:00 Edited 12-11-2014 01:12
Toluene is recommended over acetone.  Last 4 paragraphs at the link I'll add explain why.  A hot sodium hydroxide etch or nitric acid rinse can be used too.  Degreasing getting oil off first with a general parts cleaner or naptha will help have it cleaner before using toluene or a etching compound.  Steer clear of the carburetor soaks and cleaners because most of those are chlorinated solvents and going to give off some nasty toxic fumes when welding on it.   If you are getting a green flash it has too much zinc or magnesium in the aluminum mix.  Another way to tell is dab on some silver nitride and if it turns dark black it's more of a magnesium zinc mix you are going to have problems. 

http://www.alcotec.com/us/en/education/knowledge/techknowledge/Aluminum-Storage-and-Preparations-for-Welding.cfm

AlcoTec rods:

http://www.alcotec.com/us/en/products/Aluminum-Tig-Welding-Wire.cfm
Parent - - By welderbrent (*****) Date 12-11-2014 03:58
Now that is a well written article on cleaning aluminum, how and why.  Even I can understand it...now if I can remember it.  I plan to add it to my resource file.  Thanks. 

I have heard 'Acetone'  over and over for cleaning alum and it has served me well.  Now, I can see that for those into real production and quality there could be a major difference.  And even on repairs as being discussed here it is a very worthwhile note. 

Thanks again.

He Is In Control, Have a Great Day,  Brent
Parent - - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 12-11-2014 07:25
Brent,

You already have those links in your resource files... Over the years, I have posted the links to Alcotec more times than I can remember... Nonetheless, they are some very informative links and Tony Anderson has done one heck of a job putting all of that knowledge together over the years also... I didn't realize how many times I have posted the links from Alcotec over the years in here.:eek::lol::grin::cool:

http://www.aws.org/cgi-bin/mwf/forum_search.pl?words=Alcotec&user=&board=0&field=body&min=&max=&order=desc

Respectfully,
Henry
Parent - By welderbrent (*****) Date 12-11-2014 13:27
Probably Henry.  I don't always get to read every one that you post up or I just plain forget and have to be reminded by reading them again or you telling me so.

Hope you are doing well, seems you haven't been around much for a couple weeks.

Brent
Parent - - By Northweldor (***) Date 12-09-2014 12:26
Have you tried this?

http://www.hobartbrothers.com/product-details.html?name=Hobart%26reg%3B+MaxalMig+4943

Have not used, but reported to be good. (Hobart took over Maxal some time ago).
Parent - - By Stringer (***) Date 12-09-2014 13:02
Thanks, Brent. I haven't tried acetone. I can get to both sides (using shorty back cap) and etching with the torch on both sides is something I haven't tried. I clean both sides with die grinder and take the crack out. The contamination is all coming from the porous aluminum casting. I was hoping for some sort of chemical and cooking cure but can't find anything. I butter it until it messes up, then grind out and start over. Lots of patience burned up in these things.
Nothweldor, I will see if I can find that alloy in TIG rod, thank you for the tip.
Parent - By lo-hi (**) Date 12-09-2014 17:52
I used to repair old Harley casings for a friend of mine and went through the same thing. A lot of stripped out bolt holes that I ground out completely and built back up. The ww2 era motors were the worst. He pulled of one of the jugs and left the other side still complete. Halfway through a repair that side turned over like it wanted to start. Had to change my tungsten after that. Sometimes these type of projects require more  patience than super welding ability. Its still a lot of fun though.
Parent - By 522029 (***) Date 12-10-2014 00:53
I have been using 4943 since this past summer on horse trailer repairs. Works very well. Hobart is the only source, so the LWS told me.

Griff
Parent - - By Metarinka (****) Date 12-10-2014 01:47
I wish I had some helpful insight on to how to fix this.  In my experience trying to fix aluminum fuel tanks, sometimes it just wasn't worth the effort. You are basically trying to weld on an aluminum oilite as years of use at temperature have impregnated the metal matrix with oil.

My only guess would be to try something like vapor or steam cleaning and see if a vendor can pull any more of the gunk out. Perhaps an anodization vendor has some tricks like acid etching that may attack the oil and not the aluminum. Problem is it's the whole metal thickness or at least a good amount that is contaminated.
Parent - - By mcostello (**) Date 12-10-2014 03:03
Sounds like it's oil with a little Aluminum floating on top.:lol:
Parent - By Metarinka (****) Date 12-12-2014 02:03
basically, cast aluminum is not 100% dense, and even billet aluminum is somewhat porous. Oils tend to seep into all those pores or micro cracks and make nasty welds when you try to work on them. At least that's my excuse.
Parent - - By 357max (***) Date 12-16-2014 20:15
Boil the parts in a pot/kettle or large container with an overflow pipe to skim off the oils as new water is added. When the water boils clear then use acetone and a stainless steel wire brush.
Parent - By welderbrent (*****) Date 12-16-2014 21:28
While I have always used Acetone as well... check out the link provided by Henry.  Some good info with alternative and supposedly better cleaning materials.

He Is In Control, Have a Great Day,  Brent
- By Dualie (***) Date 12-17-2014 01:16
anyone have any exsperiance with ultrasonic degreesers?
Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / oil soaked pre-war cast aluminum Indian casings

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