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Up Topic American Welding Society Services / Certifications / CWI stamp (OLD STAMP vs NEW STAMP)
- - By jerrymcfly (*) Date 12-12-2014 14:41
Hi Dears,

I got a questions, please make some clear for me

In my actul job, I've been reviewing the WPSs of a supplier of mechanical construction.

The person who has certified those WPS, has a CWI certification of year 1999, but at this time he is stamping the documents with the old stamp of AWS. I mean, the black stamp with the information inside this.

At this time he is active by AWS, but...Is correct the use of the old stamp?,

When he renewed his certification, AWS don´t provide to him the new design of stamp?, I mean, the red stamp with the information beside.

Is correct or is possible to be stamping documents with the old stamp when the documents was created in year 2013?

I´ve send this questions by mail to the people of certification@aws.org, but I don´t have any response.

Sorry  by my english.

Thank you very much.
Parent - By jwright650 (*****) Date 12-12-2014 15:08
Look up the CWI# and see if it is/was current at the time of the signing of the documents.
Enter the CWI# in the link below:

http://www.aws.org/w/a/certification/search.html
Parent - - By welderbrent (*****) Date 12-12-2014 16:05
Jerry,

WELCOME TO THE AWS WELDING FORUM!!

As John has stated, you can check his/her number to see if they are indeed current.

BUT:

1) You don't have to be a CWI to write WPS's;
2) WPS's don't have to be signed nor stamped;
3) WPS's do not expire as do the credentials of the CWI who stamped them though they should be reviewed and modified when needed.

Having said that:

1) It is NOT CORRECT to use an old stamp regardless of if the person is current or if the document requires a stamp;
2) The Certification Department was probably not the correct place to send for info, I'll see if I can get you a better contact;
3) Yes, if they are current they would have a new stamp;
4) It would probably be best to request new and current WPS's than deal with this issue; the supplier should be able to come up with them easily.

Please don't just drop this though.  The Ethics Committee needs all the info you can gather and will respond though sometimes it takes a while.

He Is In Control, Have a Great Day,  Brent
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 12-12-2014 16:38
The CWI stamp is null and void if it isn't current, i.e., it includes a "stamped" date that indicates the expiration date of the CWI. The Certification Committee decided to issue the new stamp several years ago to ensure the customer could easily determine if the CWI was in fact certified. The CWI credential is null if the appropriate fees and recertification requirements are not met.

Unfortunately, "Quick Check" is a sorry excuse for allowing people to verify someone's CWI status. The members of the Certification Committee have been trying to make the Quick Check site easier to use, but AWS staff has been fighting and resisting all attempts to change the site.

ASNT makes a listing of their Level II and Level III's available by state or name. Somehow it is too difficult for the folks in Miami to do the same for their CWI program.

Best regards - Al
Parent - - By jrw159 (*****) Date 12-12-2014 17:43
Gentlemen,
  Did the date requirement change between these threads and now?

http://www.aws.org/cgi-bin/mwf/topic_show.pl?pid=166985;hl=stamp

http://www.aws.org/cgi-bin/mwf/topic_show.pl?pid=156789;hl=CWI%20stamp

In 2011, per AWS, you were not required to use the new stamp.

jrw159
Parent - - By welderbrent (*****) Date 12-12-2014 17:58
Hello John,

The minute those popped up I remembered those conversations.  LOL. 

Sounds like only the new stamps with dates need to be replaced when the date has passed.  If the old one being used doesn't have a date it should still be valid, at least if the certification is still current. 

Hope all is well up your way.  If I don't talk to you before, or others here as well, Everyone Have a Merry CHRISTMAS, AND a Happy New Year!

No, I am not politically correct.  Regardless of current trends, CHRISTMAS is the declared HOLY DAY (holiday). 

He Is In Control, Have a Great Day,  Brent
Parent - By jwright650 (*****) Date 12-12-2014 18:21
IMHO, the AWS created a lot of unnecessary confusion when they went to adding expiration dates to those stamps. Every 3 years I end up with calls about a document that has my 3 year older stamp on it and the date is now expired, yet the document is still valid. My certification has never expired from the time I first took and passed the exam, but I still get these calls. I know they were trying to curb a problem, but bad people will always do things unethical no matter what.
Parent - By jrw159 (*****) Date 12-12-2014 18:38
Brent,
  All is well here, and Merry CHRISTMAS and Happy New Year to you and yours as well!!!

jrw159
Parent - - By jrw159 (*****) Date 12-12-2014 18:42
OK, I was thrown off a little when the OP mentioned 1999 because at that time there was no date on the stamp.

However if all you have are stamps with dates included then the current one must be used.

I have my original stamp with no date included that I use so I do not have the issues John Wright is commenting about.

jrw159
Parent - By jwright650 (*****) Date 12-12-2014 20:02
I like my old stamp too.........
Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 12-12-2014 20:06
Do you remember that stamp that AWS used that flipped when you used it....I refused to use that one and kept my old one in service. I caved in after one of the discussions on here about the stamps and started using the latest design because the image was smaller and fit better on the documents that I had created that didn't have a lot of empty, unused space on them.
Parent - By jrw159 (*****) Date 12-12-2014 20:47
Yeah, I did not like that one. I still use my first one.

jrw159
Parent - - By jerrymcfly (*) Date 12-12-2014 16:53
Hi Guys,
Thank you very much for your comments,

Actually, Mexican normatives (Pemex principally) requires that all documents related to welding have to be reviewed, signed and stamped by a Welding Inspector by AWS (SCWI or CWI), so more CWIs in Mexico have a lot of work I think.

Well, this guy (CWI)  has signed and stamped the WPSs that I´ve being reviewing and certainly he is current in AWS and expires on December 1, 2017, but he has stamped documents of last year with old stamp. Why?

I need to have a technical document to refuse this action about him, because I consider that stamp is obsolete, or I have to tell to supplier "Hey, I need than you issue and print the WPSs and that your CWI stamp this with the current stamp by AWS", but based on what, I can tell this to them.

Brent, if you can get me a better contact to support this questions please send his email adress to me.

Thank you, and again sorry for my english..

Regards
Parent - - By welderbrent (*****) Date 12-12-2014 17:46
Hello again Jerry,

And that is perfectly acceptable, Local Jurisdictions and/or the engineer of record on a job can specify things beyond what the code dictates. 

How old is the stamp?  He may be right at a previous expiration and sent renewal in right at the cut off, or, lapsed and retested so that he does not have his new stamp in hand yet even if he has all the other paperwork. 

When you said he had an old black one, that was a long time ago.  The new ones have been out for at least ... about 8 years.  And we get new ones every 3 years.  Seems odd that his stamp would be that old. 

Mostly, your own standards are going to be your basis, not anything in the code.  If they require an AWS/CWI and his stamp is past expiration then the dates on the WPS need to be prior to his expiration.  And your standards should be all you need to hold them to that.  Nothing from us is really going to help.  I can look and see if I can find anything in writing within the body of standards for inspectors that states they are not to use an old stamp to give you an exact reference but I don't know if that will help you or not.  Al, the guy posted above, is one of the best to make statements about this.  He has served on the Ethics Committee I believe and is an AWS/SCWI.  Very knowledgeable.  AND, I notice he said it is not acceptable to use the old stamp.

He Is In Control, Have a Great Day,  Brent
Parent - - By jerrymcfly (*) Date 12-12-2014 20:08
Hi,

Well, I think there is no problem with this matter, with the use the old stamps.
Parent - - By n4v4rr0 (*) Date 12-13-2014 04:44
Jerry,

I don't Know if the contract specifications you work in are under PEMEX normatives, but the Standard NRF-020-PEMEX-2012, requires Certificate number and Expires date in the SCWI/CWI stamp. see 8.1.5 of this standard.

Best regards

N4V4RR0
Parent - - By jerrymcfly (*) Date 12-13-2014 13:05
HI,

You are right, this normative requires this items.

Thank you.
Parent - By welderbrent (*****) Date 12-13-2014 13:12
So the old stamp for CWI's won't work for you guys? 

Interesting, once again, inspectors have to look at their job from ALL the job documents.  In this case, the Local Building Authority Having Jurisdiction.

He Is In Control, Have a Great Day,  Brent
Up Topic American Welding Society Services / Certifications / CWI stamp (OLD STAMP vs NEW STAMP)

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