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Up Topic American Welding Society Services / Certifications / AWS D14.1:2005 - Secondary Welds
- - By rmdrmd15 (**) Date 01-06-2015 11:40
Ok, read AWS D14.1:2005, Para 1.1 Scope.  The second paragraph talks about secondary welds need only to meet the requirements of section 7 workmanship and section 10 quality.  So is one to read this as qualification and procedures are exempt?
Parent - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 01-06-2015 12:57
First off Rmd, what exactly are you working on that's to AWS D14.1 2005? I ask this because it also states that the specification is not applicable for construction and crawler cranes...

Not necessarily so because you're limited to no more than 5K psi Tensile stress and if the welds are to subjected to more than 34.5 MPa then you must go the traditional route... In other words the application that this spec applies to is very limited and if you're not compliant in any way whatsoever in the details then your use of the spec will be unacceptable.

Respectfully,
Henry
Parent - - By welderbrent (*****) Date 01-06-2015 13:25
I agree with Henry's question, you may actually need D14.3 or one to the others.  Be careful going into the D14 codes that you are using the correct one for your application.

He Is In Control, Have a Great Day,  Brent
Parent - - By rmdrmd15 (**) Date 01-06-2015 13:49
I am building Forklifts adn 14.1 is correct.
Parent - - By welderbrent (*****) Date 01-06-2015 18:16
Well, regardless of your forklift being considered a crane or construction equipment, Henry's comment still applies, that section you asked about is for basically no load situations; light strength materials, no load components, etc. 

Brent
Parent - - By rmdrmd15 (**) Date 01-07-2015 11:26
Henry's comment still doesn't help me out.  Do you or anyone else think this is a type-o or a being miss-interpreted, that you still need welding procedures and qualified welders?
Parent - By welderbrent (*****) Date 01-07-2015 14:20
Okay, let's back up here and put aside the fact that we disagree about which code you need (I still think your forklift is covered under D14.3 not D14.1).  And, make sure there is no attitude, from either of us (not just telling you to watch it). 

So, let's see what the section in question applies to.  As stated, less than 5k psi tensile.

So, how will that work under production applications?  Welding of the engine cover panel.  Welding of a part under compression that only needs to be held from shifting under very low loads so low tensile requirements. 

Certainly not the carriage or forks.  Not the main framework or engine supports.  Not the axles or spring mounts. 

So, in order to give you a clear and accurate answer, we need to know what exactly you are fabricating, welding, on these forklifts.  And, are you a manufacturer's employee or what is your job?  An outside verification inspector?

At first glance, my opinion would be that the welders would need to be qualified.  Having worked on log yards, construction companies repairing equipment, and for myself as a general fabrication shop that repaired heavy equipment, I know that there are times you are working on truly non critical components but far more times when those components are critical either for the product load or safety of the operator or those near by.  Most equipment work has a safety factor even if it is not a tensile load critical part that must be considered.  Guards, shields, ladders, seat brackets, control handles (gear shift, boom lift and tilt handles, etc), all need to be sound in their repair or original manufacturing. 

It is not an item that I would be looking for a loophole in order to save a few bucks by not qualifying my welders.  And, for many applications, D1.1 qualifications can cross over and be acceptable.  Dual certifications are possible between many of the codes and D1.1 and D14 codes are very similar for welder qualification purposes.  Especially if it would be something that may be under your section 7 query.

He Is In Control, Have a Great Day,  Brent
Parent - By TimGary (****) Date 01-07-2015 15:54
Ok, so I don't have my D14.1 with me at the moment, and I hate to make assumptions, but here goes.

I don't believe the D14.1 section in your original post may be interpreted as allowing unsupported welding for secondary welds.
I believe the wording is meant to point out that all of the additional requirements that are specified for Primary welds, such as design concerns, prohibited joints and NDE requirements, are not required for secondary welds.
I belive D14.1, just as D14.3 does, relies on the design criteria in D14.4 - Specification for the Design of Welded Joints in Machinery and Equipment.
This Specification, in the Workmanship section 6.1.5 states:

" 6.1.5 The Manufacturer's adherance to this specification shall include responsibility for the following:
(1) Producing welds as designated on drawings by appropriate symbols and note with sufficient detail...etc...etc...
(2) Providing and using written welding procedure specification.
(3) Ensuring qualified welders are used to make welds.
(4) Recording and maintainng results of all welder performance and procedure qualification tests.
(6) Inspecting the welds to the requirements of this specification
etc. etc. etc"

Perhaps the D14.1 isn't painfully clear on the exact meaning of the section you posted (AWS ambiguous, surely not), but the possible interpretation you metioned is too far fetched.
I would be willing to bet that your Internal or Customer's specification would allow no unqualified welding on product as well.

Tim
Parent - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 01-08-2015 06:26
We can only help you with what you post and if their isn't sufficient details in your query then you will only get back what you give which in your case, wasn't much in the details department at all... So if you want us to be more helpful then please be more forthcoming with details regarding your query - CAPECHE? This is how it works in here because after all, we're not mind readers and I hope you realize this.
Up Topic American Welding Society Services / Certifications / AWS D14.1:2005 - Secondary Welds

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