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Up Topic American Welding Society Services / AWS Learning & Education / Northern college Vs Conestoga college?
- - By goldybowen21 (**) Date 01-27-2015 17:31 Edited 01-27-2015 17:33
Currently enrolled in northern 2nd year welding engineering technology program, I am finding that I don't get enough hands on experience. my friend currently works with people from Conestoga and he says they are way more competent than him and as far as being competent with welding me and him are probably the best in our class. I was wondering if it would be worth for me to switch to Conestoga to finish my program because I feel behind the ball. if I was inspecting and I told someone to repair there weld and they handed me the gun, and told me to do it then, I wouldn't be close to being able to do it. what do you think is more relevant the hands on or the theory?
Parent - By Lawrence (*****) Date 01-27-2015 20:45
Why not have both.

Your answer may be as simple as requesting extra booth time (on your own time)

I know I've never turned down a currently enrolled student who wanted to get more booth time on their own.

You will also gain the perspective of the different lab instructors, which in my opinion is super valuable.
- By goldybowen21 (**) Date 01-27-2015 21:10 Edited 01-27-2015 21:15
That's the thing we tried (me with student counsel) to start a group to go in on our own time and just simply practice we had a plan so we could pay for our own materials besides filler metals and gases. But the idea was shot down by our schools program director and other members of the school(Northern College). personally I was pissed, like how do they expect us to learn anything we have a 12 week semester which is divided by 2 weeks of un-interrupted LP examination and Mag particle examination which is great but that leaves us with 10 weeks and profs have 2 weeks of vacation time so were down to 8 weeks not to mention random sick days. I mean theory is great and all but 8 weeks of 4 hours a week in the shop is junk. don't get me wrong love the theory but if I go out to my first field job and look like a dunce with a pointless degree, the people im looking at are the ones who rejected our proposal to get more hands on time.
- - By goldybowen21 (**) Date 01-27-2015 21:13 Edited 01-27-2015 21:17
I was hoping to see what someone whos been to Conestoga, has to say about what their program is like?

im not trying to bash northern, their program is great if they could set it up properly, but right now its just all over the place.
Parent - - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 01-28-2015 01:51
Well, I have to sympathize with you about how Northern arranges the delivery of their curriculum...It seems to me that you're spending way too much time with theory if you already spent your freshman year learning the processes and other subjects required towards your degree. When I taught the senior year of a 2 year technical college, the students were already competent enough with the process fundamentals, engineering drawings and not as bad as I initially thought with welding symbols... They were also pretty competent in steel mechanical properties and basic steel welding metallurgy, welding  physics, etc., etc... They were only lacking in just a few topics related to welding technology such as Aluminum, Stainless steel weld metallurgy, NDT, QC,Economics, and fabrication projects as well as other topics which I fail to remember at this time, but you get the message as to what topics were covered...

In any one of the topics covered in the senior year, there was never a theory session that lasted over 30 minutes including Q&A! I bring this up because IMHO, this is not what your instructor does, and he must learn to present each topic in sections of no more than 30 minutes tops! Any distractions when I had a theory session going on resulted in immediate dismissal for the day if they would not stop plying games that were basically hurting other students trying to grasp and comprehend the subject matter... And if need be, the instructor could also be carrying over from one section of a topic to the following class session day of the week... This way the students have more arc time every day...  And there are other tweaks they can do to the present program like offering you a part time job to help the instructor to make sure his lab is ready for the next day, and you can be paid with more arc time as well @ each end of the day for however long you instructor stays in the campus before he leaves for home and calls it a day...

This way, it's a win-win for both parties... In other words, be creative in how to open up more opportunities to have more arc time by working with the instructor and/or the administrators and if you're still not satisfied, then express this to the boss of you instructors boss because they don't like to hear about students being dissatisfied because of one legitimate reason or another  and you have a legitimate beef that's forcing you to decide whether or not it would be better for you to go to another school instead for the amount of arc time they seems to be lacking @ your present school...  All the best to you son.

You never know because you just might be successful - or not!:eek::roll::smile::grin::lol::yell::yell::yell::twisted::yell::lol::wink::cool:

Respectfully,
Henry
Parent - - By Superflux (****) Date 01-28-2015 11:50
I have a somewhat different perspective on this subject.
Go to school to learn about welding... Go to WORK to how to weld.
Ok, let me back up a bit. I'm not going to pass judgement on a program/curriculum that is unfamiliar to me. I'm quite sure the Department head and Instructors are doing the best they can with what they have. All schools are constrained by forces beyond my comprehension.
I went to a 12 month schooling that gave us 20 hours a week lab time. With that was also course work in Safety, Fitting, Metallurgy, Trig, Technical Writing and I don't remember what else.
I come outta there thinking I was purdy Hot Stuff, knew a lot and thought I could do it all. Until... that first "Real Job".
Nothing can prepare one for all phases of this extremely diverse Trade.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that perhaps you might be getting more than you think, but just not what you expect.
No matter what or how much you learn in the books or the lab, it will only be the beginning of a lifetime of improvements in both knowledge and skills.
Should you decide to jump ship, it may be a disappointment. Never know.
Rock on and just apply yourself the best you can wherever you are.
Best of luck to you either way.
Parent - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 01-29-2015 07:54
That's probably the most repeated statement I used to give my students just about every day @ the beginning of class as a reminder John:

"The only way you're going to get the experience to succeed in this field is by doing firsthand in the field, And if you leave here with the notion that you're going to be the hottest, most educated welder to hit the field? Well then you're in for a very rude awakening once you get out there and really start to learn how to weld and fabricate on your own without anyone holding you hand like we do in here for you! This is where you begin by learning the fundamentals... And after you graduate and start working on your first job... That is when you'll start to learn how to put everything you learned to use along with learning more than you did in here, and to hone your skills by actually making a living, and without making as many mistakes as you did when you were here... Because out there in the real world they don't want someone that constantly has to fix their own mistakes... So common sense will be demanded of you on an hourly basis and here is where you learn how to think with common sense - CAPECHE?"

I have told that speech to just about every welding student I have had the pleasure to teach starting all the way back in 1987, and quite a few have expressed to me how grateful they are for giving it to them straight and honest. That more than anything else tells me that I did my job.:grin::cool:

Respectfully,
Henry
- - By goldybowen21 (**) Date 01-28-2015 16:26 Edited 01-28-2015 16:35
I do agree with you John that I could learn how to weld by getting a job welding, but once again im still in school...I paid for school to learn about welding I could have gone and just simply got a job, but I wanted to learn how to do things properly first before going into the field and picking up bad habits. Not that everyone has bad habits but people are in the business of making money and if that means cutting corners, then so be it.

I like your thought though maybe first field job after My program is done will give me a better perspective on things.

Currently I work in an Engineering consulting office so I just have the paperwork side under my belt.:eek:
Parent - By aevald (*****) Date 01-28-2015 21:13
Hello goldybowen21, regardless of how you view the "hands on" part of the welding "TRADE" and I para-phrase it that way because there are so many offshoots that can lead you to anywhere and everywhere, schooling and hands-on training are just the tip of the iceberg and the real training and learning will occur when you indeed venture out into the world and work in a part-time or full-time status. Another comment that I'd like to interject here goes like this: the grass often appears greener on the other side of the fence. But it doesn't always guarantee that your perceptions will be satisfied by venturing there.

People's ability to gel with one another often will determine, to a large degree, the learning that can occur and the successes that are derived from those interactions. I would second the suggestions of others to approach instructors first, and their bosses next, to see if it is possible to modify the program offerings to provide for more lab time. There can certainly be times when people are just not aware of the need(you bring it up, they think about it and then they act on it), other times there may be funding issues, still others: maybe the additional shop load might require additional staff and place this option beyond available funding. You just never know.  

With all of this being said, I too am of the mind that inspectors are likely better prepared for inspection if they have some knowledge and experience in what they are looking at. However, as others have said, when you look at the scope of the work that is most often involved with inspection it does not cover making assessments of process or procedure and it should cover meeting requirements of contract, code, and ethics as they relate to your employer and the responsibilities laid out in your work agreement with them. Good luck and best regards, Allan
- - By goldybowen21 (**) Date 01-28-2015 21:36 Edited 01-28-2015 21:52
Ill take your guys word for it you all definitely have more experience then me, take it one day at a time and learn as much as I can along the way, hopefully everything works out well thanks for the input everyone. :grin:
Parent - - By Superflux (****) Date 01-29-2015 13:36
I remember back in '78, some fella said to me "You're the smartest welder I ever met".
I replied... "Thanks, but that's telling me "Your the best dressed trash collector I ever met".

Totally off the wall, but my eldest daughter is a college degreed Mining Engineer.
She works supervising a Liver Transplant surgical department. Her education in no way prepared her for that career path.
You will have to do odd ball things beyond what you expect and put in the effort to do the job...
Gotta pay yer dues...
Go figure...
Parent - - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 01-29-2015 19:49
"my eldest daughter is a college degreed Mining Engineer.
She works supervising a Liver Transplant surgical department. Her education in no way prepared her for that career path."

Wow John! A mining engineer supervising a Liver Transplant surgical department? I gotta read how she managed to get to that position simply out of personal curiosity from someone who had a liver transplant over 17 years ago, and knows that everyone in the surgical department are either trained surgeons who are going through or already have been through fellowship training in how to perform a liver transplant, and the surgical technicians that were and still are RN's @ minimum are the only one's permitted to work in a liver transplant surgical department unless she's working @ the office and is supervising their office...

Now when you say supervising a liver transplant surgical department, do you mean that she's a support supervisor, office supervisor or a nursing supervisor? I ask this because As far as I know and as well as my transplant doctors are concerned, they have real doubts that that an entire liver transplant department would have a person that isn't a doctor and a trained surgeon with vast experience in performing liver transplants be allowed to supervise an entire liver transplant department anywhere in these United States... So could you please clarify just exactly what your oldest daughter supervises in a liver transplant department? This ought to be really interesting for me on a personal level.

Respectfully,
Henry
Parent - - By Superflux (****) Date 01-30-2015 00:42 Edited 01-30-2015 02:13
Henry,
Supervisor is just the hairy backed knuckle dragger coming out in me. A member of the Hospital Administration Department Team is a better description. Not the Department Head or such. I am sure that is some grey haired doctor. She is "The Pencil" behind the scene. She has been involved with Architects designing the transplant wards and surgical rooms for new hospital construction, coordinates staffing, budgeting, orders the equipment, sponges, gauze...
Once a month or so, she'll sit up in the "Peanut Gallery" and watch various transplants. Heart, liver, lung, kidney, etc., make corrections for ergonomics and efficiency...  danged if I can understand it all. She tells me it is good engineering work that she does, but a degree in Industrial Engineering would have better prepared her for this career path.

Back 20 years ago when she was in college, I had dreams of her and I to go into business together some day in Mining Consultation after she got a few years of field experience with Kiewit, Peabody, Amax, whoever.
Danged kid went and ruined my plan for her life by marrying her college sweetheart (Chemical Engineer) moved to Texas and thinks they are living happily ever after. Seriously, give up an exciting career in strip mining and go into Hospital Admin work??? When she could be in Zimabwae digging a huge hole in the jungle.
Parent - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 01-30-2015 23:44
Too funny John!!:lol::lol::lol::grin::cool:

Now it all makes sense.:eek::roll::lol::yell::yell::yell::lol::lol::grin::cool:

Respectfully,
Henry
Parent - By Tyrone (***) Date 03-07-2015 11:42
Hey Landon,
Just read this thread.  I don't look in the Education section much.

To answer your question...
Stay with Northern.

Northern College's reputation is higher across Canada than Conestoga's.  Just at my company, there's about 8 Northern vs 3 Conestoga grads (+ 1 Waterloo).
Like everyone else said, you are there to learn theory.  My guess is that you won't be looking for a job as a Welder, but as an Engineer.  Pick up the practical in the field to round out your skills and abilities. 

Waterloo's Welding Engineering program is gaining momentum.  They will become the bar, if they haven't already.

Tyrone
Up Topic American Welding Society Services / AWS Learning & Education / Northern college Vs Conestoga college?

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