AWS D1.1, PJP weld symbol

Date 03-16-2015 19:40

All,
AWS D1.1, Clause 2 @ 2.3.5.1, PJP Groove Welds. Shop drawings shall indicate the weld groove depths "S" needed to attain weld size (E) required for the welding process and position of welding to be used. To reference Clause 3, Joint design, BTC-P4-GF, with regards to say "shop drawings" and or design drawings that have been blessed for fabrication, Is th only thing needed is (S) depth of bevel and groove angle? I think (E) should be shown as well?(attended weld size). Another reason I say this is Clause 4 at 3.12.2.1, at paragraph 4. Just trying to settle a couple different opinions, These days I work soley with D1.1, For over 21 years I worked to AWS D15.1 with lots of PJP weldments on railcar construction and (E) was always shown on all drawings along with (S) regardless .
Thanks
Roger

By jwright650 (*****)

Date 03-16-2015 19:47

My opinion: Yes...include both "E" and "S" dimns for all PJPs
Makes life easier for the welder to interpret what is required.

By rshanks (**)

Date 03-17-2015 12:52

Thanks for your input, Has anybody noticed in AWS 2.4, (2012) on the standard location chart (E) is not even shown. For as long as I can remember (E) designated groove weld size.

By TimGary (****)

Date 03-17-2015 13:51

Check out AWS A2.4:2012 - Section 7.2.7

"A welding symbol with a depth of groove specified, and the groove weld size not included and not specified elsewhere, may be used to specify a groove weld size not less than the depth of the groove."

The standard location chart shows (S) for groove weld size...?

Tim

By welderbrent (*****)

Date 03-17-2015 14:05

Also, look at the 'forward' of A2.4 down towards the bottom of the page. They go through the history of (S) and (E) and give reasons for some changes to usage.

He Is In Control, Have a Great Day, Brent

By rshanks (**)

Date 03-17-2015 18:37

So I'm safe to assume that PJP (E) "weld size" is going away. That the new 2015, AWS D1.1, will make (E) obsolete? I can't see this working out.

By welderbrent (*****)

Date 03-17-2015 19:55

I think I understand your concern, but, look at the 'NEW', better, latest, greatest welding symbol example in A2.4, Figure 3 page 3.

'D', 'E', and 'S' are placeholders. 'E' stood for effective throat or weld size. 'S' stood for Depth of Bevel or size or strength. Since they are only placeholders anyway, you could use 'X', 'Y', and 'Z' if you wanted to. It really doesn't matter. These letters don't show up on a finished drawing anyway. Though they are often used in the General Notes to designate how welds are to be detailed.

My concern is confusion when trying to explain certain things to welders, fitters, or whoever.

But, Replacing 'E' with 'D' makes sense when you consider what it has come to stand for 'depth of bevel' (changed to 'groove'). And, using 'S', but in a different place as a placeholder, makes sense for 'size of weld' not just effective throat.

You still have two placeholders. They are still showing all interested parties the depth of bevel (groove) and the intended weld size. They just changed what letters are in use.

See also Annex 'D', D4.5, page 113 in A2.4.

Thus, I believe you are correct in what will happen when we see the new D1.1:2015 but there will still be two placeholders even though there will be no 'E'.

He Is In Control, Have a Great Day, Brent