QW -451.4

Date 05-11-2015 19:35

QW-451.4 of Section IX states that fillet welds are qualified when the groove weld test is qualified in accordance with either 451.1 or QW-451.2. I had a post about a month ago that discussed fillets and/or grooves for PQR tests that Al had set me straight on, but now I am once again confused. He stated that fillet weld tests were necessary to determine the minimum and maximum sizes to be used in construction. Does QW-451.4 state that the fillet weld tests are not required if the PQR was a groove weld? Went from not confused, to confused, to not and now back to confused!!! :confused:

By 803056

Date 05-11-2015 22:28

I believe the discussion was in regards to the structural welding codes.

However, without pulling out the "O'l Section IX", it would stand to reason that if the project calls for fillet welds and if the contractor does not already have a qualified WPS for fillet welds or groove welds, the testing regiment would have to include a CJP plate assembly.

Why would one have to qualify a CJP plate assembly if the production welds are fillets only? Simple, one of the primary purposes of qualifying a WPS is to demonstrate the proposed WPS is capable of producing welds with the required mechanical properties. Those mechanical properties include weld soundness, tensile strength, and possibly notch toughness. Other tests may be required by the customer. Tensile strength and notch toughness cannot be determined by a macroetch of the fillet cross section.

Best regards - Al

By jsdwelder (***)

Date 05-12-2015 12:22

Thanks Al. So I guess my question would be if we have produced a satisfactory CJP to verify the strengths you discussed is it necessary to also perform fillet weld tests to be qualified to perform fillet welds in construction? Isn't this the point of 451.4? All groove weld tests qualify all fillet sizes on all base metal thicknesses and all diameters? Please forgive me if I seem stupidly redundant. I just really need to make sure I get this right.

By 803056

Date 05-12-2015 18:46

Let's not confuse AWS with ASME.

Let's not forget that ASME is one code that doesn't require the welding parameters listed on the WPS to be based on the parameters used to qualify the WPS using a plate or pipe test. The parameters listed by the WPS can be pure fiction and per ASME Section IX they are perfectly acceptable for production welding.

While the parameters used to weld the test plate (or pipe) coupon worked for that particular application, they are considered to be nonessential variables. Thus, there is no requirement that the parameters be recorded on the PQR. The parameters are lost to the ether if they are not recorded, thus the parameters listed by the WPS are likely pulled from the butt of the individual tasked with writing the WPS.

The rest of the real world limits the range of the welding parameters listed by the WPS to be based on the parameters recorded on the PQR, i.e., Voltage +/- X%, amperage +/- Y%, and so on. Thus, if the parameters used to qualify the plate test are inappropriate for the fillet welds needed for production, the soundness test, i.e., the macroetches, allows the contractor to determine what parameters are needed to make the required weld size. The parameters used to deposit the required weld sizes (qualifying the fillet procedures) are then used as the basis of the welding parameters used for production fillets. The WPS lists welding parameters that are based on actual test results rather than conjecture.

Different codes, different committees, different interests, different relevant work experience produce different code requirements.

Best regards - Al