D15.1:2012 Flare V Groove

By agibson636 Date 05-22-2015 20:33

I've been looking through D15.1 to find out if when welding sheet steel if a square groove weld will qualify a welder to perform a flare v groove welds and fillets as well but I cannot make any sense of it. All it shows is what positions the weld qualifies for not the type of joints that would fall under it. I have procedures for 3/8" plate single v groove welds and procedures for 11ga square groove and fillets just wondering if I should have the flare v grooves to accompany them and if I need to give my guys 9 tests or 3 tests to qualify them for the welding that they will be doing. I apologize if I am blind and don't see it in there but any help would be appreciated. Thank you.

By welderbrent (*****)

Date 05-22-2015 23:10

agibson,

WELCOME TO THE AWS WELDING FORUM!!

First, I want to make absolutely sure about one thing....we are talking about D15.1 The Railroad Code...RIGHT?

I'll bet not many of us get much chance to read through that one. But, let's begin by saying that every code has certain peculiar portions in it's expansive verbiage.

Just thinking out loud and bringing items into mind from D1.1 and D1.3 I would hazard a GUESS that the welder of the square groove would not qualify for the flare V groove. In D1.3 and very likely D15.1 there are going to be many of the joint configurations that are going to be qualifying the procedure as well as the welder at the same time. That is also why you have to do 3 positions with them instead of just 2 as in D1.1 for Pre-Qualified joints and WPS's. Even in D1.1 the square groove has limited thickness range, 1/4" max. And, it is not part of qualifying a welder to the actual qualifications of D1.1.

Without my D15.1 available currently I will have to resist the urge to prognosticate further.

He Is In Control, Have a Great Day, Brent

By agibson636 Date 05-26-2015 12:26

Thank you Brent, yes the code I am referring to is the Railroad Cars and Locomotives. From what I had gathered the square groove wouldn't qualify a welder for flare v or fillets I am just making sure is all I didn't want to get redundant with tests for my guys. Doesn't hurt to have more than one opinion right? lol Thanks again for the insight Brent I really appreciate it.

By fschweighardt (***)

Date 05-26-2015 19:15

So when I look in AWS D15.1:2012, (Table 11.3), I see that per footnote c "Also qualifies for welding fillet welds of all sizes on material of 1/8 [3mm] to unlimited thickness for the positions qualified in Table 11.4"

I believe that should answer one part of your question as to fillets.

For the Flare bevel, some thoughts:
Per AWS A3.0:2010, the full name of a flare-bevel weld is "flare-bevel-groove weld" on pp18.

It seems that the RR code does not differentiate between the many varieties of groove weld, and welder qualification for one serves for all. Also for your consideration, in Table 11.1, "Performance Qualification-Limitation of Essential Variables" joint type/weld designs do not appear.

Other interesting reading in 11.4:
"Suggested groove welding joint designs are given in figures 11.1 through 11.4. Other designs may be used" (italics mine)

If it was me (and it ain't) I would say by straight code, you are covered with a groove weld test. I might supplement that with some macros or something if you are concerned on the flare-bevels.

Of course, you know all about opinions and the other less savory noun.

By agibson636 Date 06-09-2015 19:01

I completely agree with you as far as Figures 11.1 through 11.4 but I was talking about with sheet metal. I've had a chance to thoroughly go through the code and as you are correct with those figures however in the sheet metal requirement section of the code it does specify in Table 18.1 "A change in joint design type from one of the below to another type: (a) Square or V Groove, (b) Fillet, (c) Flare Bevel or Flare V"

With that being said I've answered my own question, Yes I do need to have my welders qualified to each joint design because of the fact that they do weld, fillets, grooves and flares. They sure do make it difficult don't they? lol I just wanted to reply to your response and thank you for taking the time to give me a hand. I do apologize for not getting back sooner. Thank you again.

Regards,
Adam