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Up Topic Welding Industry / Inspection & Qualification / Weld joint
- - By CLH1978 (**) Date 06-16-2015 19:27
Good day to everyone. I have a question regarding a formed pipe flange. The forming creates a lip over the pipe as the pipe passes thru it. The weld symbol is a PJP single bevel with a fillet weld symbol below it. The weld is completed in one pass, in the horizontal position. The top surface of the formed lip is a obtuse angle of 120 degrees from the pipe.
      Would the fillet part of the weld be considered a skewed fillet weld or a reinforcing weld or something else?
      Because of proprietary reasons I am not allowed to post a pic or drawing.
     
      Thanks for reading.
Parent - - By aevald (*****) Date 06-17-2015 00:21
Hello CLH1978, if I have read your post correctly I believe that I have a sketch that might show how I have interpreted it. Maybe you can elaborate from it without compromising your confidentiality/proprietary issues.
Parent - By Lawrence (*****) Date 06-17-2015 11:19
I can't believe you just drew out his top secret sketch !

Bad bad Allen !
Parent - - By CLH1978 (**) Date 06-17-2015 13:10
Hi aevald. Thank you for responding. Your drawing is close. The obtuse angle off the pipe is straight at 120 degrees, with a inside acute angle creating the bevel groove. Welding is performed only at the left side of your drawing.
Parent - - By CLH1978 (**) Date 06-18-2015 17:02
Hi Everyone. Does anyone think that a skewed fillet weld is involved in this joint? My thinking is the portion of the weld sized as a fillet is correct and skewed would have no part in the joint design or weld size.
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 06-21-2015 17:04
Show us a sketch so we know what you are talking about instead of guessing what you are talking about.

Al
Parent - - By CLH1978 (**) Date 06-22-2015 14:58
[img][/img]
Parent - - By CLH1978 (**) Date 06-22-2015 15:08
Good morning everyone. Best I could do this morning.
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 06-22-2015 23:38
Very nice. Now we have something to work with.

Can I ask what the applicable construction code is?

AWS D1.1 includes a statement that for angles between 80 and 100 degrees, a fillet weld is or can be used. For angles between 60 and 80 degrees or for those more than 100 degrees, annex B must be consulted to calculate the "corrected" leg dimensions (my words). For angles less than 60 degrees, the Z-loss must be taken into consideration. As stated, those requirements apply to structural applications, not necessarily ASME.

ASME has an interesting approach; it is the manufacturer's responsibility to ensure the design is adequate for the application unless it is prohibited by the applicable construction code. It provides the engineer with plenty of latitude and nearly no direction. You prove it works and the sky is the limit.

Best regards - Al
Parent - - By CLH1978 (**) Date 06-23-2015 14:31
Good morning Al. Thank you for replying.
D1.1 is the applying code. Your thoughts are that the joint is a skewed T-joint?
        I appreciate everyone's comments.
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 06-23-2015 19:09
The right side I would call a flare bevel, and the left side? I would defer to my previous post. If the obtuse angle between the members is more than 100 degrees, it is a skewed T-joint and subject to the conditions listed by clause 2 for skewed
T-joints.

Best regards - Al
Parent - - By dick (**) Date 06-24-2015 00:40
CLH & Al I see 120 degrees possible from the top of formed flange  & pipe , but to me, correct me if I am wrong, in seeing a much tighter angle in around the 30 degrees angle between base metals, where Al has all ready covered the other conditions to take into consideration in previous post.
Just wondering?
Good learning post!:cool:
Great info
Dick
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 06-25-2015 18:52
Acute angles less than 30 degrees cannot transfer a calculated load per clause 2.4.3.4. If the surfaces are machined to open the acute angle, then the other clauses of the 2.4.3 can be applied. Look at Figure 3.11 in D1.1:2010.

The alternative is to qualified the joint detail the manufacturer wants to use and demonstrate it has the required capacity.

Best regards - Al
Parent - By dick (**) Date 06-26-2015 01:42
My thoughts, not prequalified (figure3.11).
Acute angle less than 30 degrees (2.3.5.2) & (2.4.3.4)
Paperwork time?

Dick
Parent - - By CLH1978 (**) Date 06-24-2015 15:15
Al, thank you for getting me straight on the skewed T-joint. I have always appreciated the time and effort that you and so many others spend volunteering information to the forum.
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 06-25-2015 19:05
Skewed-T's can be more complicated than folks often think.

I appreciate this thread... Valuable comments
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 06-26-2015 02:52
That's why we frequent this site. We enjoy sharing ideas. We might not always be right, but it is always a lively discussion!

Al
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 06-26-2015 12:32
I'm currently working on a project to produce tables for our standardized work instructions.    We have been very conservative in the past, placing CJP's in places that did not necessarily need them in order to have less complicated elements on our prints.

The welders will need to refer to the tables to get correct fillet sizes for different conditions... But the payoff for them is that they will have to do far less carbon arc gouging on CJP's.... 

The trick is to make the tables simple and get the detailers to put angles on every Tee joint that is not 90 degrees :)

Anyhow this conversation was super interesting and an encouragement.
Parent - By dick (**) Date 06-30-2015 09:47 Edited 06-30-2015 09:57
Lawrence,
hopefully you can keep us posted on your tables,
might be something we could all use to adapt to our own unique situations.:cool:
Dick
Up Topic Welding Industry / Inspection & Qualification / Weld joint

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