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Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / Down hill allowed?
- - By Superflux (****) Date 06-21-2015 07:39 Edited 06-21-2015 07:42
AWS D1.1 2004 says...
3.7.1
(1) Undercut may be repaired vertically downwards when preheat is in conformance with Table 3.2, but not lower than 70°F [20°C].

Since it is in Section 3, this would make it prequalified for allowing undercut repair in the field and need not be specified in the WPS, correct?

BTW, is it my inept computerizing skills, or did the AWS D get "restructured'" out of the Forums?
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 06-21-2015 16:07
There was a recent interpretation regarding the repair of undercut using downhill progression. It was suggested this particular clause be relocated to clause 4.

Downhill progression is not prequalified. As such, the WPS must be qualified for downhill progression. Likewise, the welder must be qualified for the progression used. It took me 5-years to receive the final resolution to the question.

Best regards - Al
Parent - - By Superflux (****) Date 06-21-2015 18:21
Al,
Thanks for that clarification. I think...
Has the interpretation you speak of been published?
Parent - - By Superflux (****) Date 06-21-2015 18:32
As a welder back in the 80s (with a CWI card in wallet) I used to do this just razz inspectors. After quoting book, chapter and verse, I never had an inspector challenge me. As QC, I have always demanded that the welders (who were clever enough to use MY trick on me) remove the material and reweld in up hill progression.
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 06-21-2015 20:41
I believe it was published in the Welding Journal.

This is what I have:

Subject:  Welder Qualification and Position Qualified
Code Edition:  D1.1:2006
Code Provision:  Subclause 3.7.1 and Table 4.12
AWS Log:  D1.1-06-I13

Inquiry:  Is a welder that is qualified for groove welds in the vertical position using upward
progression qualified to repair undercut using downward progression without further
qualification testing?

Response:  No, see Table 4.12 (5).

Best regards - Al
Parent - - By Superflux (****) Date 06-22-2015 04:12
Al,
Thank you for the documentation.
Parent - By welderbrent (*****) Date 06-22-2015 15:39 Edited 06-22-2015 15:56
It is also already on the interpretations page on the new website, if you can find it.  :eek:

Here, I went and got the address so you can go right to it even though Al quoted it exactly: 

https://app.aws.org/technical/interps/D1.1-06-I13.pdf

Brent
- - By welderbrent (*****) Date 06-22-2015 14:04
Pretty sure I remember seeing that in the Welding Journal within the past 6 months.

Brent
Parent - - By Superflux (****) Date 06-22-2015 17:42
Thank you Brent.
Parent - - By Cumminsguy71 (*****) Date 06-24-2015 10:13
Nothing to add but I actually understood and knew where everything was in the book while reading this!! LOL!!
Parent - - By Superflux (****) Date 06-24-2015 18:49 Edited 06-24-2015 18:54
So Shawn,
That means you TOO have been pulling off the downhill undercut repair???
With out the Official interpretation in hand, that can be flip flopped either way.
One of many examples where the (any) code can be used to one's benefit or demise.
I used the downhill repair all the way back since 1986 when I was in Ventura, Ca. and the QC manager showed it to me. It was according to him acceptable by LA County Deputy Inspectors. Once shown in D1.1, no one could deny me that "privilege"
Parent - By welderbrent (*****) Date 06-24-2015 23:14
Honestly, I never interpreted it that way.  And never allowed it either.  But, I always have been the underdog.  It seemed(s) pretty clear to me.

What section is that statement in?  3.7 General WPS Requirements.  So, allowable but the welder still has to be qualified for it and it is it's own qualification separate from the standard vertical up which is pre-approved.  Items not pre-approved need PQR's.

Anyway, committee cleared it up.  No wiggle room now.

Brent
Parent - - By Cumminsguy71 (*****) Date 06-27-2015 17:17
Never done the downhill repair. A friend of mine and I were talking one time and he said, "there's no downhill in D1.1". Kind of stuck with me, uphill repairs only. Arm is already calibrated for that direction when actually doing the work so to much trouble to recalibrate hand and eye coordination specs, arm speed and angle are also issues that would have to be recalibrated and since those are essential variables I would have to have metal certifications registered and tested before I could alter my settings to accomplish the repair. So, it's just easier to do any repairs uphill, typically though I prefer to just weld it out the first time, leave the repairs to the other guys.
Parent - - By qcrobert (***) Date 07-14-2015 20:34
Dropped a 10" flange on my right hand last week and still having a difficult time getting it recalibrated.

Robert
Parent - By 803056 (*****) Date 07-14-2015 23:25
Ouch! Sorry to hear that my friend. That had to have hurt! Any broken bones or just hurt feels?

Best regards - Al
Parent - - By welderbrent (*****) Date 07-15-2015 01:19
Robert,

We are supposed to be watching the young guys do those things.  Take care of yourself man.

Hope nothing is seriously injured.

He Is In Control, Have a Great Day,  Brent
Parent - By qcrobert (***) Date 07-15-2015 12:37
Thanks Guys, just hurt feelings.

Sorry to get off topic.

Robert
Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / Down hill allowed?

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