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Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / Distortions
- - By waqasmalik (**) Date 06-26-2015 21:14
Hi all, i shall be greatly thankful to all the knowledgeable authorities here on this forum who shed some light on welding distortions while considering me a novice. I have little understanding of it, like it is caused by non uniform heating which makes the different portions of base material to expand depending upon the temperature exposure. Areas near to weld is subjected to high temperature so it expands more, area farther from weld expands relatively less, so high temperature area wants a tension but cooler rest of the base metal resists it. This causes compression stresses in hot portions and tensile in cooler. After heating is gone, reverse happens, hotter wants to contract( it wants compression) but cooler base metal resists it so this causes reversals of stresses.

I know all this but confusion comes when yield strength exceeding is brought into discussion and its effect on distortion.

Thanx all in advance for spending your precious time in reading the post and giving feedback.

Regards

Waqas Malik
Parent - - By dick (**) Date 06-26-2015 23:07
I am not sure what your asking, (distortion-something changes shape) (yield stregnth-level of stress permanet deformation of .2% of the original dimenssion occurs.)
any help?
Dick
Parent - By waqasmalik (**) Date 06-27-2015 11:01
Why change of shape occurs? What metallurgical/mechanical phenomenon is involved in this?
Parent - By 357max (***) Date 06-30-2015 13:40
Check on You Tube the video/film ~ "Mr. Shrink" it has been reproduced by the James F. Lincoln Foundation. May answer some of the questions.
- - By Mickymost Date 06-27-2015 22:09
Hi
The key thing is in simple terms about distortion is you are putting a lot of heat is a small place. When this happens the heat needs to go somewhere but if the base or parent material has low thermal conductivity (does not want to let heat go anywhere) BUT high thermal expansion (moves a lot) then things start getting stressed. Buckling, moving the metal just does not like the heat in a small area as it can't cope with the stress so so it has to bend and that is what you see in the distortion of the metal.
Hope this helps
cheers
mike
Parent - By dick (**) Date 06-30-2015 01:41
Wagas
I agree with mike,the heat added is simply dissipating from the applied area depending on base metal specs, thickness, direction of weld travel, all can contribute to distortion. Do a search on weld distortion or distortion control. This might help control it.
Dick
- - By 803056 (*****) Date 07-02-2015 14:15
As the base metal is heated in a localized area, it expands. However, the surrounding base metal resists that expansion, so the heated region exerts a stress on the surrounding colder base metal. When the stress introduced by the delta T exceeds the yield point of the base metal, permanent deformation results.

The delta T required is not as high as one might suspect. A simple equation says it all:

E = (stress)/(strain) = (yield strength)/(delta T)(Coefficient of expansion)

delta T = (yield strength)/(E)(Ce)

Example:

delta T = (40 ksi) / 29x10^6)(6.5 X 10^-6) = 212 degrees F

That would indicate a delta T of just a little above 212 degrees is sufficient to cause permanent distortion.

Assuming it is 75 degrees (ambient temperature), heating a localized spot to about 300 degrees F is sufficient to produce permanent distortion.

While the YS of the base metal decreases with temperature, as would the Modulus of Elasticity, the temperature range of interest is relative small, so the values can be considered constant and provides a reasonable approximation.

Good luck

Al
Parent - By waqasmalik (**) Date 07-09-2015 19:50
803056

You calculated for steel. I calculated for aluminum following the same technique.

Delta T= 14 Ksi / (10 * 10 ^+6) ( 13 * 10^ -6)

This gives Delta T= 107 degree F= 42 degree centigrade.

Almost one half of steel 212 F=100 degree centigrade.
- - By welderbrent (*****) Date 07-02-2015 15:58
I can't add to the educational example given by Al, but let me use a practical example that often turns the light on for those who are struggling with the practical application of heat and distortion:

Take a 2" diameter carbon steel cold rolled round bar and cut it exactly 6" long (reasonably close to 2" but measure it with a micrometer or dial caliper for research purposes, same with the length- use a dial caliper so you can get accurate results).  Put it in a vise so that both ends are under pressure from the jaws of the vise, not the sides.  Put heat on it, say, 500°F for the purposes of our example (you can do less, more, and change the times held at heat just for your own curiosity).  After holding at heat for a short time take the torch away and let it cool.  More than likely, it will fall out of the vise.

Why?  As it was heated under restraint and the bar wanted to expand we restricted that expansion so it could only go one direction, sideways.  Thus, the bar got fatter while at the same time stayed the same length.  But, as it cooled down and shrunk in all directions the length became shorter than it was originally.  So, when returned to room temperature the bar is now over 2" in diameter but thinner than it would have been while at maximum temperature (you can really see this if you take the bar clear up to a bright yellow/orange in color) and it is also shorter because all the growth was forced to the sides and when it cooled it still had to shrink.

You have the same volume of material as when you started but it is distributed differently. 

Now, picture that but without the vise.  The other material on your member is providing the restraint unless you were to put the whole thing in an oven and heat it evenly in it's entire volume.  So as you heat one area and the material expands things have to move and give and how much depends upon amount of heat, time at heat, size of material, grade of material and many other factors. 

Hopefully my feeble example will help you picture what is happening when added to the expert explanations and equations given by Al and others.

He Is In Control, Have a Great Day,  Brent
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 07-02-2015 18:16
It better be a big vise made of good quality steel. :wink:

Al
Parent - By welderbrent (*****) Date 07-02-2015 18:50
Or maybe it's the vise that will change dimensions  :eek: 

Brent
Parent - By welderbrent (*****) Date 07-02-2015 20:48
Now, while the principle is the same, you might want to use a bar 1/2" in diameter.  Talking to Al and the force exerted on the vise with a 2" bar would be quite massive.  It would take one very stout vise.  It has been years since I actually did this, my how time flies when we are having so much fun, and I may be inaccurate in the bar size I remember using.

If you have a large enough vise, go for us and take some pics for us.  I'll have to try to set it up when I get my shop all organized and get my own pics.  I love this kind of research and sharing.  Gives me good examples to share with others.

He Is In Control, Have a Great Day,  Brent
- - By waqasmalik (**) Date 07-04-2015 18:38
Thanx all especially 803056 and Welderbrent for excellent examples to make things easy for novice.

803056

When the stress exceeds the yield strength of the material then permanent deformation occurs. Whether this happens while heating( restrained heating) or cooling ( restrained shrinkage)?

Thank you.
Parent - By aevald (*****) Date 07-04-2015 21:11
Hello waqasmalik, as usual you have received some very substantial and thorough answers from a couple of the heavy hitters of the site. I would like to add just a small additional consideration to these comments: during the manufacture of many structural shapes internal stresses can be introduced by the manner in which these forms are drawn, rolled, or otherwise shaped. Sometimes these internal stresses can be released by heating them and the results will be counter to what is expected by standard heating/shrinking/welding practices. So if you have a part/structure that "moves" in a different direction than you expected it may be due to these internal stresses and then you may need to reconsider how you fabricate a particular piece or you may need to perform additional "heat shrinking/straightening". Good luck and best regards, Allan
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 07-04-2015 23:22
Yes.

Funny answer, but accurate.

As the metal is heated and attempts to expand, it is restrained by the cold base metal surrounding it. The heated area exerts a force on the surrounding base metal until it reaches the yield point. At that time, the heated base metal, loaded in compression,  deforms by plastic deformation. Upon cooling, the heated metal contracts, but again, the maximum stress, now in tension, is equal to the yield strength of the base metal. In the final analysis the residual stress is in tension and equal to the YS of the base metal.

Best regards - Al
Parent - By waqasmalik (**) Date 07-05-2015 11:44
Thank you sir
Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / Distortions

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