Outside Corner Joint - Fillet or Groove?

Date 07-06-2015 23:16 Edited 07-07-2015 01:34

I'll fill in text if I can make this attachment work.

Okay, so, this is the only pic I could get to attach right now, I'll work on that.

But, the top RIGHT is actually the closest to what you want and I believe you can bevel either member. That is a pre-approved corner joint with a bevel for a CJP. EDIT: I meant top right. Great day in the morning! My bad.

Your pic can be done but it is not a pre-approved corner joint when done that way. The backing bar gets you close but it really needs to be done as in the illustration.

He Is In Control, Have a Great Day, Brent

Attachment: Outsidecornerweld.jpg (10k)

By hawkeye (*)

Date 07-07-2015 10:35

Where did you get your picture from?

I know that this is not a prequalifed joint. The majority of the joints that I am dealing with are not prequalified. See my response below, I was just wondering if this was a fillet weld or groove, the backing bar added to the inside was throwing me off. It's kind of strange... if you add a chamfer to the edge it becomes a groove. If you put the two edges together is a edge joint (also a fillet). Or if the engineer requires a certain amount of fusion it could be a square groove welded from one side only. However the same joint, without any edge prep, located like an outside corner and a backing bar could be called a fillet??

By welderbrent (*****)

Date 07-07-2015 16:11

The way you have it pictured it would be a fillet weld on a corner joint. Be careful of terms used. It is never a 'FILLET' joint. It is a fillet weld that can be used in a joint that has in some way a 90° corner; Lap joint, T-joint, Corner joint, etc.

Even if your corner was not exactly corner to corner of the plates at a 90° angle it would/could still be a corner joint with a fillet weld. But, you are correct. Once you start beveling then it becomes a groove joint. The one I named at the top right of my attachment would be a fillet weld if done from the inside only with no member edge preparation. But, if you prep either member from either side it becomes a groove weld on the corner joint. It can be a single bevel, double bevel, V, or double V. For that matter a J or U depending upon how it is prepared.

He Is In Control, Have a Great Day, Brent

By welderbrent (*****)

Date 07-07-2015 01:40

We really need to ask:
Is this to D1.1?
What process in being used?
What type of load is expected?

Now, look at D1.1 Clause 5, Figures 5.4(F). This joint is accounted for. But, you must also go to Clause 3 and Figures 3.4 and see that that joint is not Pre-Approved/Qualified. So, A PQR is in order.

Now, without knowing more about your situation, it may be totally acceptable since the engineer called it out with the backing bar. But, being a bit of a purist to code application, if I came to do an outside verification inspection I would want to see your PQR showing you had the required ability to get the correct tensile and yield for the joint to truly be considered a CJP on the materials specified.

We don't know what you are doing so I have added EXTRA precautions to make sure you don't just say we said it could be done that way. And, just because the engineer called it out with a backing bar still does not make it acceptable if there is a code application. There are procedures that must be followed.

He Is In Control, Have a Great Day, Brent

By kcd616

Date 07-07-2015 03:12

Brent.
code always trumps everything
local building being the Ace
if approved use it
if the powers that be approved it
follow the plans and prints
just my stupid ideas
sincerely.
Kent

By dick

Date 07-07-2015 03:53 Edited 07-07-2015 23:58

Agreed, full open corner with fillet weld, just curious to (base material thickness ect. and specified weld symbol per drawings).
just riding along with the documents :smile:

Dick

By hawkeye (*)

Date 07-07-2015 10:30

I only wanted to know if it was a fillet or groove.

Welderbrent, where did you get the picture from?

By TimGary (****)

Date 07-07-2015 11:21

Fillet welds apply to Tee, Corner and Lap joints.

Tim

By welderbrent (*****)

Date 07-07-2015 16:13 Edited 07-07-2015 16:21

I stole it. :lol:

Found it with a Google search of corner welds couldn't get some of mine to work taking them from my codes and specs on the computer.

See above but it is simply a fillet weld as drawn.

See drawing attached here thanks to Al. This is a fillet weld. It is also a fillet weld when used in a 90° application as previously stated on lap and corner joints as well as T joints.

It is important to always keep 'joints' and 'welds' separated in our mind and terminology. There is no such thing as a fillet joint. There is no such thing as a corner weld, lap weld, T weld, etc.

A good reference is A3.0 Defs and Terms, and A2.4 Weld Symbols. So also the section on Weld Symbols in the WIT book (Welding Inspection Technology) available from AWS.

Brent

Attachment: FilletSize-InscribedTriangle1.jpg (33k)