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Up Topic Welding Industry / ASME Codes / Root Pass with GMAW then repair with GTAW?
- - By jback Date 10-15-2015 14:32
I have an issue that I am confused about.  I just started my new position as Welding Engineer.  Our welders have a method that doesn't seem right to me but maybe it is ok.  They are welding pipe, and how they do it is lay down the root with GMAW, then go back and fix the stop start with GTAW and also clean up any possible defects on the root inside of the pipe.  They don't use filler inside of the pipe but do on the cover pass where they fix the stop start.  We have WPS for both Mig and Tig on the material but they are separate WPS.  My question is, is it ok to do it like this, or do I need a multi process WPS or can I use two different WPS on the same weld?
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 10-15-2015 17:25
What welding code is invoked by the employer or the customer? That's your starting point.

You said no filler metal is used during the repair, so the welders are simply refusing the existing deposited weld?

Your welding standard may or may not address the situation. If not, why not qualify a WPS?

Al
Parent - - By jback Date 10-16-2015 13:12
What welding code is invoked by the employer or the customer? That's your starting point.
The welding code is ASME B31.3 invoked by the employer.
You said no filler metal is used during the repair, so the welders are simply refusing the existing deposited weld?
They are simply refusing the existing deposited weld on the inside of the pipe to fix the root yes.
Your welding standard may or may not address the situation. If not, why not qualify a WPS?
I can not find in B31.3 where it specifies a repair procedure.  I am not sure about writing a repair WPS, as I have not seen one before.
Al
Parent - By 803056 (*****) Date 10-16-2015 14:17
There are several approaches you can take. You can use an existing WPS that addresses the use of GTAW and filler metal additive or you can write a WPS that is specific to the repair that describes any processing steps such as grinding the existing weld to sound metal, the shape of the excavation, etc.

As for the repair made without the addition of filler metal, I suppose you could qualify the technique by replicating it and performing the mechanical testing required to demonstrate the mechanical properties are obtainable.

Best regard - Al
Parent - - By Kix (****) Date 10-16-2015 18:22
Al gave you solid advice on your question and after you get to the bottom of that, you can work on fixing the process to eliminate rework and make yourself look real good at the new gig. :wink: That could entail qualifying a new procedure completely, but if you have to do it to fix your problem, it could be worth looking into qualifying a new more consistent process entirely. You could go with Tip Tig root - GMAW fill/cap, GTAW root - GMAW/Fill Cap to raise the consistency of solid welds. Current process times with rework would have to go up against new process times hopefully without rework, but I've seen some tip tiggers deposit and travel as good or better then a mig welder. It Could also be as simple as changing the parameters within your current process to produce a better more consistent root pass along with training, all the while staying within your current procedures essential variables of course. Are you able to roll these welds out on a turntable? For time being, my 2 cents would be to make them do the repairs with filler using existing wps (if I read that right in that you have one) to stay code compliant until you nail down root cause. Making it a pain in the rear for them might make them try harder and think about how to put in a good weld the first time.  Best of luck to ya in your new gig.

Kix
Parent - - By jback Date 11-17-2015 16:15
For time being, my 2 cents would be to make them do the repairs with filler using existing wps (if I read that right in that you have one) to stay code compliant until you nail down root cause. Making it a pain in the rear for them might make them try harder and think about how to put in a good weld the first time.

So you are saying, I can make a repair adding filler metal with tig (with a qualified WPS), to a mig (different already qualified WPS) cover pass and still be code compliant? 

Kix
Parent - By 803056 (*****) Date 11-19-2015 01:24
Remember that the filler metal used for GMAW may be exactly the same filler metal used for GTAW. ER70S-X can be used for GMAW and GTAW. The only difference is one rolled up on a spool and the other is provided as a rod. The chemistry of the deposit may differ slightly depending on the shielding gas used, but they should be close.

Al
Parent - By Kix (****) Date 01-06-2016 20:01
Yes, If you are using a similar GTAW filler that suitably matches your GMAW filler and can be used on the base materials being welded. You're making a repair/or excavation, not running a dual process weld joint which would need to be qualified. Now if you are back welding the entire seam, I would have to baulk that I would want a procedure written for one side with GMAW and Back welded with GTAW. You might be able to combine WPS's to make that 100% compliant. Not going to go into that.

Kix
Up Topic Welding Industry / ASME Codes / Root Pass with GMAW then repair with GTAW?

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