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Up Topic Welding Industry / Inspection & Qualification / VT definition
- - By cwipg25 (*) Date 01-12-2016 21:18
Does anyone have the official definition of VT, visual testing, per ASNT?
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 01-12-2016 22:05

ASNT Nondestructive Testing Handbook Vol 9  Visual testing.

"Visual testing is the observation of a test object, either directly with the eyes or indirectly using optical instruments, by an inspector to evaluate the presence of surface anomalies and the object's conformance to specification."
Parent - - By msharitt (**) Date 01-12-2016 22:28
I don't want to hijack the op but I do want to add to it for some guys that may be involved with ASNT. I will try to walk on eggshells as I ask because I haven't done thorough research.

I was browsing jobs and one required VT level II ASNT. After a quick search I saw that ASNT has a reciprocity for VT. It stated somewhere along the lines that if you sent them $200 and their eye form, as a CWI or SCWI. It would certify you as ASNT level II VT.

From an employee standpoint why would I spend the extra or even go through the proper channels to acquire level II VT if my CWI is the same thing?

Is this just an extra money idea or do some employers prefer you to have ASNT VT over a CWI?
Parent - - By welderbrent (*****) Date 01-12-2016 23:14
If you actually study the VT material from ASNT and go through a class to get Level II VT qualified you will find many things that are not exactly the same.  It goes way beyond just the 'looking at welds' qualification of a CWI. 

You will study the eye and see why certain lumen brightness flashlights are really needed and what angle works best for said light.  You will learn more about metallurgy and how it pertains to castings and forgings as well as standard welding.  You will learn the difference between direct and indirect inspections.  AND MUCH MORE. 

Much of this is also covered in the MT and UT classes that I took but not all of it.  But ASNT does go beyond AWS when it comes to some of the material required for qualification.

So, no, they are not the same.  Even the eye exam is different, J1 not J2. 

Then, there are definitely areas of the trade where those added lessons are of importance and very applicable so they don't recognize the reciprocity cert anyway if they know what they are looking at. 

He Is In Control, Have a Great Day,  Brent
Parent - - By js55 (*****) Date 01-13-2016 13:59
The CWI course I took covered everything you listed except the eye stuff, which actually I think is kinda silly. You are training to be an inspector not an ophthalmologist.
Parent - - By welderbrent (*****) Date 01-13-2016 14:42
Well, when I took mine and the ones I have sat in on as our section rep at the seminar didn't go nearly into the detail that the courses I took from NDT College online classes did (VT, MT, & UT) nor my Level III's classes when we set up our company program and got the boys and I certified in MT and got our classroom hours in UT. 

But, I don't know what you had so can only speak for myself and try to explain to those asking about the differences how the systems differ and what prospective clients may be looking for and why they want a particular cert over another one.  Just like those who want an ICC for special inspection (Bolting and Welding) over CWI or at least in addition to it.  Even though AWS now has both a Bolting and a Print Reading exam to show the same qualifications abilities.  Sometimes this is the other way around obviously, as many prefer the CWI but there are a fair number of people out there with ICC Structural Steel certs that can't keep busy unless they get their CWI.

Parent - - By js55 (*****) Date 01-13-2016 19:02
I understand, however I would make the point that the choice of cert would relate more to targeted opportunities than it would curricula.
Parent - By welderbrent (*****) Date 01-13-2016 22:10
Absolutely.  I don't take anything because of what it teaches.  Some things taught will not even be on an exam which is true of ASNT, ICC, AWS or any other class/exam I have taken.  That doesn't mean it isn't useful information or at least interesting information.  To me anyway but my wife says I'm an information sponge.  I may forget a lot of what I read but I am always reading something.  Just ask people who work around me. 

One needs to concentrate upon certs which will promote the job opportunities within the segment of the industry they wish to be involved in.  You cannot be an expert at everything.  I get a kick out of guys who have their soils certs, API certs, concrete certs, welding certs, 2 or 3 ASNT certs, bolting certs (usually IBC), Fireproofing, NACE certs, and others.  When do they take all those exams to keep current and how much money does it take. 

I have enough without trying to get into every part of the building. 

He Is In Control, Have a Great Day,  Brent
Parent - - By Superflux (****) Date 01-13-2016 00:24 Edited 01-13-2016 00:27

It can mean the difference between hired or not. The fact is that some recruiters, other hiring authorities and/or contract specs will demand the ASNT VT II. As you stated, one particular job Required it.
I lost out on a long term nuclear project for Big Bucks in China several years ago because of this. I tried to reason with them and then tried to get them to hold off until I could send the 200 clams to ASNT and get it. But sadly to avail. What really bit the big one from my perspective is that at the time, I had (have) Level II; MT, PT and UT. That ONE (moot IMO) cert held me back.
I did eventually follow through and receive the L II VT, and guess what? It was a waste of money as No one ever wanted, required or needed it since then. As I always say though; "Any and all certs you have are just like a specialized tool in your inventory". It certainly can't hurt.
Parent - - By msharitt (**) Date 01-13-2016 13:09
Thank you both for the response. That helps me understand a lot better. I personally have never been a large fan of reciprocity, especially when there are large differences. That does make me interested to look into it. I've been wanting to get more involved with ASNT. Being a fairly new CWI I want to learn as much as possible. In my neck of the woods it's hard to get into anything NDT that deals with ASNT. Obviously companies want experience, but you can't exactly become a level II on your own, at least not in my shop, we have no testing equipment so it'd be impossible for me to get my hours.

In the future, hopefully the near one, I plan on getting the required training to further my education towards ASNT work. As it seems the knowledge is there if you're a level II MT, PT, or UT, but I can see where it would have added benefits. I can defiantly see and agree that going through the process per ASNT would be the best bet for such certification.
Parent - By js55 (*****) Date 01-13-2016 14:02
Personally I do not believe there is anything inherently wrong with reciprocity when two programs are working towards what is in essence the same thing. The lack of reciprocity is sustained due to revenue and turf battles.
Parent - - By CWI555 (*****) Date 01-14-2016 11:46
As an answer to the posed question, Lawrence gives the most concise answer. Beyond that, the waters get murky at best.
Parent - - By js55 (*****) Date 01-14-2016 14:05
Given the clarity, accuracy, and conciseness of Lawrence's answer there was little to add unless you went into murky. I suppose we could have congratulated him on his acumen and then sat quietly at our desks with our hands clasped.  :)
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 01-14-2016 17:35
Funny thing is;  I was sitting at my desk with my hands clasped, reading the thread and realized that the ASNT handbook was on my desk at that moment... So I unclasped my hands and typed a sentence.

My acumen stands congratulated :)
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Parent - - By cwipg25 (*) Date 01-14-2016 23:21 Edited 01-15-2016 14:55
Thanks Lawrence for the quick reply. I did not want to have to buy a $130 book to get the answer. I wish I could get into the specifics of the reason that I asked the question, but I feel it would be a violation of a non disclosure agreement.
Parent - By welderbrent (*****) Date 01-14-2016 23:55
Always depends upon who hired you and what your job contract documents state as to the scope of work/inspections that are to be performed.  It can also depend upon the applicable code that may or may not call out specific responsibilities. 

Don't try to make a job something that it isn't.  Sometimes all the Engineer/Customer wants is verification that work was completed properly.  IF, the engineer is your customer.  For in house QC the company QC manual should be referred to and followed. 

Your question and following comments are very vague but indicate a disagreement in what you perceive as your job compared to someone else involved in the project.

A definition of VT is not really going to answer the question that truly lies at the bottom of the issue.

He Is In Control, Have a Great Day,  Brent
Up Topic Welding Industry / Inspection & Qualification / VT definition

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