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Up Topic Chit-Chat & Non-Welding Discussion / Off-Topic Bar and Grill / For the Tower welders on here!
- - By 46.00 (****) Date 03-07-2016 21:13
http://www.safetyandhealthmagazine.com/articles/13677-you-cant-subcontract-safety-osha-fcc-host-workshop-on-tower-climbers
Parent - By Tommyjoking (****) Date 03-18-2016 23:46
a.k.a Shawn Kelly........no very very few others who have the ballsack to do it.
- - By welderbrent (*****) Date 03-19-2016 00:22
Yep, and after all we went through to get all the correct insurance, equipment, training, etc, along come the fly by nights with no overhead and steal all the jobs away and underbid us.  We finally stopped doing them because of all the hassle dealing with companies like Sitexpedite who won't pay and others who want you to match the price of some idiot who isn't playing ball in the same league. 

We are hanging onto everything waiting for this to all play out but it is going to take more people getting hurt and maybe a couple of towers collapsing before they get their act together.  Just like some of our complaints about things going on in the structural steel weld end of things for multi-story buildings.

He Is In Control, Have a Great Day,  Brent
Parent - - By Tommyjoking (****) Date 03-19-2016 01:51
I did not get involved heavily....but I have listened to Shawn after he took it and run with it.  ITs a narrow business most that get asked will not do.  The ones that try typically are unprofessional and low end welders, therefore Shawn is constantly having to correct armature welding practices or just entirely rework work done by others.....people over time involved with building and modifying these towers.  It definitely is not for everyone, grinding out bad welds at 200ft hanging from a positioning lanyard and then putting in d1.1 code welds.   Shawn has created a niche for himself and beyond that makes rates most of us drool over.  More power to the man.  To address your points Brent,,,,yep most probably 80% OF THE little sub contractor "tower companies" suck....they are dangerous in their practices, they don"t pay on time....they try to milk you for your time on site etc. plus etc.   The thing I think that make the point is offer the quality work and demand a premium price where you can take your time and make it safe as you can for you.  Your average job shop cannot take on this kind of work and the tower companies are at a loss as to where to get welders that can meet code and climb safely.   Shawn Kelly is the go to mofo in this business and he got there VERY quickly.   Shawn do not be mad at me for posting my opinion please.   Its not like a bunch of freaking rig welders are gonna jump at trying this...

It is an EXTREMELY dangerous way to make your living....the tower contractors do not have the best practices from what i have learned.   If your not a pro in many ways do not even consider it.
Parent - - By welderbrent (*****) Date 03-19-2016 04:16
You have nailed all but one point, our job was inspecting the towers Tommy.  We weren't doing the welding as Shawn does.  And we had everything in place that was required by the mega companies then they start using guys who don't have all the required certs, equipment, insurance, etc. 

Oh well, what comes around, goes around.  They can have it.  They earned the attention they are getting by OSHA and others.

Brent

PS, nice hearing from you again.  Been awhile.
Parent - - By Cumminsguy71 (*****) Date 03-19-2016 11:05 Edited 03-19-2016 11:14
I have ALL the certs, climbing, RF, Hazcom, CPR, First Aid, really F---ing expensive climbing cert, more expensive harness, grand total at last count gear just to climb, over $3000 and needs regular replacement and upkeep due to UV and burns, not to mention my burns. You can subcontract BUT you must meet all of the requirements which is extremely expensive, more expensive than some of the welding machines I've seen on trucks. Think your old fancy SA200 cost a bunch at $5000-7000, that's a good start.

36 deaths between 2011-2015. I knew two guys personally and a friend was recently electrocuted and lost his arm. The welding end of it is sometime sketchy. Depends on the contractor and the project manager back in the office and the foreman onsite to verify any and all qualifications needed when hiring a subcontractor. I have worked for many that have never asked to see my climbing credentials. So, in short any wanker with a $200 harness and enough leads and desire to go up and weld can if they find the right contractor that has a pencil that is not so sharp. Officially however ALL tower owners require ANYBODY stepping one foot on their towers to be climber certified and all of the top tier contractors will require this. Somewhere along the line it gets lost in translation sort of speak as you progress further down the contractor tiers. This is where the lower contractors need to be watched I suppose, the shady ones at least.

Crown Castle was mentioned in this article and as much as I didn't care for their plan to test all welders with their own inspection company, a requirement and ONLY their inspectors can test you, witness test, destructive test, costs a ton, I am now a fan of it. Why? Because Crown will now keep a record of your jobs as a welder. You do good work on their sites and all is well, your record will reflect this. You screw up a job and then they have to call in another contractor who then calls me to go out and fix it then you get the black mark on your file at Crown, weeding out the hacks. I'm all for it.

I for one am all for the proper credentials being required and checked. It's not because I'm going to cry, "you're charging as much as me but don't have all of the same stuff I have" kind of thing but more of a "if somebody needs to be rescued or you don't know what the F.... your doing then you do not belong at this location" type of thing. I have met with personnel from actual tower companies, meaning the actual owner of the site and have NEVER been asked for my climber certs. A simple way to clean things up in my opinion, pre-con meetings with the site owner should have that verified. I've done work for a lot of different companies and one of the best ones I work for called me on one job because the local chap they found was not climber certified. Lucky for me and them because the foreman on the job said he saw him weld on the ground and knew this guy couldn't weld. His words, "He couldn't even weld standing on his feet so I was worried about what would happen when he actually was hanging in a harness". Luckily they booted him off the job because of his lack of credentials.

We'll weed out the bad eggs slowly but surely. It's going that way really quick. The tower owners, cell site owners and everybody else involved is tired of the publicity and the deaths. It's not a very good thing when you are listed as being in top ten most deadly jobs in the world and then make it to number one. That is just for the climbers, they never mention the climber who is also welding at 400 feet hanging from a 5/8" rope.

Knowing how to climb and move around as the article was talking about. Agreed. I have worked towers where 2 out of the 3 faces were COMPLETELY covered with coax cable stacked 3 deep. Talk about hard to tie off, move around and weld at 300-350 feet. Personally, if you're an amateur climber or wanna be, have not been climbing trees and other things since you were 8 years old I'd prefer you're not on the tower, especially with me. Every crew I work with we are friends, brothers. We understand that our actions can endanger others and that is something that is on our minds when we think safety. You screw up where we work there is no standing up and brushing it off, twisted ankle, broken fingers, you die. Free climbing, none of the contractors I work with condone this nor do the foreman I work with. Slip + Oops = Dead

It's a niche field because when you wake up in the morning and head to the jobsite to climb all day working, this is one job where you go there and you could end up dead. Everyday working at heights means you could die today. It's not like welding on a stopper fitting on a gas main for one day then doing butt joints for the remainder of the job. The danger is there while you weld on your stopper, "don't blow thru" but then once it is over, for the most part so is the danger element. On towers, everyday is welding on a stopper fitting. In West Virginia some guys were replacing diagonals on a tower, pulled out one to many and the only one that went home was the foreman because he was on the ground. All it takes is one little mistake. There is no running out of the way, ducking under a building or hiding behind a vehicle. You ride the tower to the ground or free fall.

If you can suppress the fact that you might die today, work hanging from a 5/8" rope with nothing below you but open air anywhere from 20 feet to over 400 feet, weld in the vicinity of flammable coax cable, can deal with some serious burns on your body due to how you have to weld then hey, maybe you can be a tower welder. Me personally, I love it up there. Nothing better in my opinion. Crank up the music, breeze blowing, birds flying around checking you out, great office views, the restroom is a bit of a problem but at least one of natures callings can be remedied without removing oneself from the tower, depending on wind direction, crew and vehicle locations......
Parent - - By Tommyjoking (****) Date 03-20-2016 02:21
Bravo.....it is not for everyone welder or not.:grin:
Parent - - By 522029 (***) Date 03-20-2016 13:37
I don't even like climbing a 16 foot ladder!  I do it but don't like it.  I don't like being in a bucket 50 feet up either.  That just about maxes out my tolerance for being off the ground.

Kudos to you and others who go higher!

Griff
Parent - - By Trackergd (**) Date 03-23-2016 16:01
I'm with you Griff.  I don't like heights. Not on ladders, not on the roof and not in a bucket.  On a tower? Oh heck NO.  Of course it does not explain why I don't mind being in an aircraft.  I used to sit on the rear ramp of a Chinook with my legs dangling off back in the early 70's without any fear of falling.
Parent - - By 522029 (***) Date 03-24-2016 00:03
Most of us have done things in our early years that scare the weebie-jeebies out of, at least, me!

Griff
Parent - By welderbrent (*****) Date 03-24-2016 02:37
Yeah, especially after having a brother-in-law fall over 50' while working the same job I was on, raising 5 kids and watching them climb, and stand in places I once thought safe, and having a paranoid wife when it comes to heights, I tend to get a little weak in the knees when people do 'CRAZY' things.

Some of the things my kids do I have to walk away. 

Brent
Parent - By 46.00 (****) Date 03-20-2016 02:35
Nice reading  Cumminsguy71
Parent - - By kcd616 (***) Date 03-20-2016 04:34
Shawn,
your one of the best
old timers love to look at what you youngsters are doing
it is like doing at hot tap
takes at set of tungsten cajohones
you get all my respect
very sincerely,
Kent
Parent - By Tommyjoking (****) Date 03-22-2016 01:28
Tungsten BALLS    ok Shawn you never admitted anything like that to me....WHAT the hell happened in Japan?!!!!  

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

I don't know about tungsten...but Shawn has got real balls....that one and only go round he got me up way before daylight and worked me long after everything closed.   He is a man and a real man.  Not one of these spouting off little punk golden arm mofos who cant hang.  Shawn Kelly is who he claims and more, man always will have my respect. He EARNS what he has...that is more then I can say for the majority.
Parent - By MRWeldSoCal (***) Date 03-23-2016 22:00
Damn that is intense haha.  I couldn't do it no way.  My friend does transmission power and get choppered up to the top and even he hates it still.  I couldn't get used to it.
Parent - By Smooth Operator (***) Date 03-25-2016 00:14
Pictures worth 1000 words Shawn...... Any calls I get will be steered your way......stay safe dude......
Parent - - By Sourdough (****) Date 03-30-2016 13:34
Ever drop your hood?
Parent - By Cumminsguy71 (*****) Date 03-30-2016 22:46
Dropped several. Lincoln auto dark, 200 feet, cracked the lens. Pancake hood, same job, 160 or so, lens portion of the hood, balsa wood, shattered, shield and side were good. Somewhere in Missouri on a 300 footer dropped a Speedglas from somewhere over 100 feet, broke the headgear on it. Lucky for me Speedglas changed hood designs the year before and discontinued the headgear I needed. Found some aftermarket stuff but it never worked right again. Dropped a hard hat, it survived. Dropped a 1-1/4" bolt, nut and washer from up around 200, it left a sizeable dent in the dirt. Watched a guy drop a spud wrench from 300, hit the roof of the building, lucky for us it didn't go thru. We made a water bottle helicopter and dropped it from 350 feet, lost site of it before it hit the ground.

Good times, expensive times.
- - By 803056 (*****) Date 03-22-2016 01:39
You gotta love the burn!

The higher the better.

Al
Parent - - By Cumminsguy71 (*****) Date 03-22-2016 10:32
You got h that right Al! Every time I'm down for a few weeks I start getting this itch to climb high. It's those slow times that really make the wife nervous because I start looking at the local skydiving joints around me! Usually it's then the man above sends a ton of work my way, lol!
Parent - - By Trackergd (**) Date 03-23-2016 16:03
Flight Engineer rule one:  There is no rational/sane reason for jumping out of a functional aircraft.  :lol:
Parent - By Cumminsguy71 (*****) Date 03-23-2016 16:46
That's a flight engineer and sane and rational were never my strong points!
Parent - - By welderbrent (*****) Date 03-23-2016 18:55
UUMMM...didn't Clint Eastwood use that line in Breakheart Ridge?  Or was it someone else?  I still like it.

Brent
Parent - By Trackergd (**) Date 03-23-2016 20:06
I learned that back in helicopter school in 1974.  They also pointed out that you cannot parachute out of a helicopter that is autorotating (crashing).
Besides, it was my helicopter, I signed for it and I was darn well going to ride it into the ground...and did on one occasion, but that's a story for another day. :neutral:
Parent - - By Cumminsguy71 (*****) Date 03-23-2016 23:42
It was Clint Eastwood, "Heartbreak Ridge" but different way he said it to Swede Johansson,

"Jumping out of a perfectly good aircraft is not a natural act. So let's do it right, enjoy the view. Come on"

I need a different view, can't climb high enough anymore, all looks the same.

:grin::grin:
Parent - - By Superflux (****) Date 03-24-2016 05:09 Edited 03-24-2016 05:24
Most people are NOT afraid of heights. I have seen those who cannot stand near a window in a multistoried structure.
Most people ARE afraid of hitting the ground at terminal velocity. This is usually due (at least in my case now) to a lack of confidence in their coordination, athletic ability and sense of balance.
In 1973, I was an Ironworker at 18 y/o and walking 1-7/8" wide joists 30' up with no safety D-ring lanyard, wearing a tool belt and bolt bag 1/4 of my body weight. Was I skeered??? You danged right I was.
Later was a Boilermaker when it was considered unsafe to tie off when receiving a load. I'd be perched on top of the Boiler framework like a hoot owl 310 feet up flagging cranes and handling parts weighing 1,000's of pounds. Was I skeered??? You danged right I was... but got used to it. I always loved it up on the iron, but never completely felt comfortable. No one messes with you up on top.

35 years later I was doing a WongMart gig in Montana. Reflecting back on "The good 'ol days", I tried shinny-ing up the column onto the bar joist... then I shinnied RIGHT BACK DOWN! Some how, at 55 y/o my athleticism had diminished dramatically. Yet my brain still thought I was 20...

Right after this was taken, I returned to Inspection full time and became an office puke. This was only 40' up and the fan coolers weighed in at 30 tons each. Got majorly wussy-fied, but my typing skills improved dramatically... along with my income.
Attachment: OntheIronShrunk.JPG (24k)
Parent - By welderbrent (*****) Date 03-25-2016 00:50
I'm not afraid of falling nor of the sudden stop.  It's all those thoughts going through my mind as my life passes before my eyes.  Been way too busy accomplishing absolutely nothing.

Brent
Parent - - By Cumminsguy71 (*****) Date 03-25-2016 01:38
I've always said it's not the fall it's that sudden stop at the bottom that gets you! First time out at 250 feet was I scared? Nervous for certain, tunnel vision. Rod bag, stinger, weld, rod bag, stinger, weld was my entire line of sight. Not entirely certain that I was what would be called scared though. Lasted a couple days by the end of the job, no worries. Next job out was a 400 footer in Wisconsin. Driving up I was excited and couldn't get there fast enough. The entire time I was thinking, "I've never been to the top of a 400 foot tower before".

I've worked with several guys in their 50's that are still wrangling towers but then again they've been Tower Dawgs their whole life.

Some handle it different I guess. I'm like that one commercial. Where they say, "Some people have to travel for work and some work when they travel". Some guys will go up because they have to be there to work. I like to think that while I'm up there enjoying the view and the open air, freedom I have to work. But then again, I have fallen asleep on the tower hanging in my harness waiting for people to do things on the ground.

Safety first, be aware of your surroundings and the people you are working with. Inspect your equipment daily so you know it will save your life if needed and then there is nothing to worry about.

At one point though I will have to give it up. Will go absolutely bat poop crazy after that though. Similar to what Robert Duvall, "I love the smell of Napalm in the morning" I love the view from the tower in the morning.
Parent - - By Stringer (***) Date 03-31-2016 16:03 Edited 04-02-2016 22:01
Disengaged millenials staring at their phones (whom I assume fund much of the cell tower industry) thank you for all you (incredibly responsible and disciplined tower workers) do!:lol:
A joke only.
Parent - - By Cumminsguy71 (*****) Date 03-31-2016 19:20
Unless you have a GoPro on your hardhat then it takes pictures for you without staring at your phone. Plus I'm not a millennial.

My phone is in a bag on my harness for emergencies, guy falls, gets hurt and for Bluetooth music. It does not get answered if it rings. At home emergencies, wife calls the foreman on the job because she has their number, so the phone never gets answered. Others can leave a message and I'll call back after work is finished for the day. They pay me what they do to work, not play on the phone and that is what they get.

Oh wait, I lied. The foreman's have called me, project managers have called me and I have text messaged the foreman's about issues or to turn up the machine, when you're several hundred feet in the air and yelling to the ground in 15 mph or higher winds yelling does not work, but then I guess you would have to actually experience this type of work to actually know.
Parent - - By Jarhead1 (**) Date 03-31-2016 20:45
Crazy...
Parent - By Cumminsguy71 (*****) Date 03-31-2016 21:57
LOL!! You got that right!! Just a day at the office!
Parent - - By Trackergd (**) Date 04-01-2016 06:51
I got dizzy just looking at that.... :eek:  :grin:
Parent - - By mcostello (**) Date 04-02-2016 03:13
What do You mean get dizzy? I could just about pee the chair looking at that picture.Hats off and would buy a beer for the guys that can do that.
Parent - - By Superflux (****) Date 04-19-2016 23:31
OK,
NOW I too is gunna be a Tower Welder! Eat your heart out Cummins guy!!!

I have some alternative energy projects/experiments that have been in the concept phase for a while now.
Went down to the local scrap yard here the other day and missed out on getting the other sections. Danged it. Oh well, 20 feet is all I can figure on being able to erect with a pick-up and a double set of falling gin poles.
Anyone know how to fabricate the curves for a set of Darius impellers?
Attachment: SAM_0127.JPG (117k)
Parent - By Cumminsguy71 (*****) Date 04-20-2016 00:24
Haha!! Have at it Superflux!! Need some help? I've stacked a single tower and jumped a gin pole while on the tower. If you want to feel something freaky jump an 80 foot gin pole while dangling from a horizontal in the center of the tower, it's like being on a swing set at the playground!

Sorry, can't help out on the impellers though! :lol::lol:
Parent - - By aevald (*****) Date 04-20-2016 05:05
Hey John, can I talk you out of yer bike? TW isn't it? Good luck on your alternative power projects, sorry can't help you with the Darius curves. Best regards, Allan
Parent - - By jrw159 (*****) Date 04-27-2016 23:26
Allan,
  I was thinking the same thing! I have seen them with the rear rim as a fuel/water/air cell as well.

Really cool bikes for off road.

jrw159

John,
  I guess I have to get in line! LOL

jrw159
Parent - - By Superflux (****) Date 04-28-2016 17:15
jrw159,
Actually BOTH wheel rims are 5 gallon tanks. So you could put water in one and gas in the other for the ultimate in boondocking. Once fuel goes in, it would be a life or death situation to store drinking water in it. I've yet to to use them for fluid storage... however, there is a group of Toyota Landcruisers planning a trans Darien Gap Expedition in December. I must admit, I have tossed around the idea of offering my services as a scout. But I HATE the jungles! btdt
Parent - By jrw159 (*****) Date 04-30-2016 15:05
Ahh, I see it now in the second pic you posted. In the first one it is hard to see in the shadow/shade.

Yes they are most often used for fuel and/or buoyancy and water would require a good clean out and be an extreme situation.

They are definitely cool bikes, not fast but bull strong and you just about can't stop them! 

Pretty cool my friend!

jrw159
Parent - - By Superflux (****) Date 04-28-2016 17:39 Edited 04-28-2016 17:50
Sorry Alan, but you are welcome to come out to Wyoming and ride it all you want at the ranch, or out at "The Gulch", or up in the mtns...
It is a Rokon Trailblazer. See response to jrw159 below.
More people compliment and have tried to talk me out of that bike than did my Harley.
Alternative power experiments are on hold now as I have a 2 on 1 combined cycle pwr plant to finish. That ought to keep me busy until first of Summer.
Besides, if I got rid of "Ol' Rocky", HOW would I ever be able to secure my borders????
Attachment: PerimeterPatrolshrunk.png (186k)
Parent - - By aevald (*****) Date 04-28-2016 23:09
Well you got a point there John, I guess you better keep that one. Just keep your eyes out for spare parts because if my memory serves me even remotely correct those aren't current production machines these days. Uniqueness and functionality, that's what sets them apart, even from a Harley. Best regards, Allan
Parent - - By Superflux (****) Date 04-29-2016 10:59
I think they are still in business.
I ordered this one from the factory in N.H. spring of 2012.
Parent - By aevald (*****) Date 04-29-2016 13:58
I stand correctly......you know they say the mind is the first thing to go. Have fun John.
Parent - By jrw159 (*****) Date 04-30-2016 15:07
Not too long ago they had an episode of "Pawn Stars" and they bought one, had it restored and it turned out real nice.

jrw159
Parent - - By kcd616 (***) Date 04-20-2016 16:24
flux,
talking about this?
http://www.google.com/patents/US20100104461
sincerely,
Kent
Parent - By Superflux (****) Date 04-28-2016 17:17
Kent,
I was leaning more towards the "egg-beater" style for aesthetics...
Parent - By jrw159 (*****) Date 04-27-2016 23:26
NICE BIKE!!!

jrw159
Up Topic Chit-Chat & Non-Welding Discussion / Off-Topic Bar and Grill / For the Tower welders on here!

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