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Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / aLUMINUM GRINDING
- - By 877412 (*) Date 03-17-2016 18:07
HAS ANYBODY HAVE ANY POROSITY PROBLEMS WITH ALUMINUM  GRIND WHEELS "MADE IN THAILAND" ?
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 03-17-2016 18:39
Yes, grinding wheels used on aluminum surfaces to be welded may cause porosity no matter who makes the wheel.

There are a bunch of threads here on the forum related to surface prep and various defects in aluminum.

Try a couple of different searches here...
Parent - - By Tommyjoking (****) Date 03-19-2016 02:06 Edited 03-19-2016 02:15
ALuminum is a picky material....your porosity can come from a great deal of sources.     Grinding rocks ....really>?  I do not care who made them it is likely chunks of this abrasive material are getting stuck in your project.   Any kind of dirt or contamination in AL will always float directly to the top of your puddle and be trapped there.  A combustable containment could create a gas pocket and then visible pososity.  Overheating your weld pool both in time or heat can case hydrogen bubbles to appear at the surface of your weld.   Your best bet for moving aluminum material that is going to endure a welding process is machining.....by hand carbide burrs coated in boelube do a good job.  An Acetone wipe afterwards typically will remove any residue from the boelube.  Scotchbrite all surfaces afterwards. If you must remove material with a typical abrasive tool,,,,go back with some kind of carbide burr and do a thorough wipe down if you intend to get a reasonably clean weld on Aluminum.   For hand cleaning or even die grinder cleaning scotchbrite causes little harm to the welding process.  Aluminum is totally non tolerant of other materials in the weld pool.
Parent - By kcd616 (***) Date 03-19-2016 08:27
Agreed
dead on correct
sincerely,
Kent
Parent - - By 522029 (***) Date 03-19-2016 14:04
Mr. Frank Armao says there is one and only one source of porosity in aluminum welds and that is entrapped hydrogen.  That hydrogen can have several sources but a grinding rock is not among that group.
The grinding rock may contaminate the weld but not be the source of your porosity.

Griff
Parent - By Tommyjoking (****) Date 03-19-2016 18:19
877412     Before responded and got a discussion going I should have as usual just went along with Lawrence.  If you do a search on Aluminum prep or Cleaning or porosity you will get several very in depth threads that cover the subject well...beat it to death even.  Good reading and ideas.
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 03-19-2016 18:48
The material used to manufacture the grinding disk or stone may not be a source of hydrogen, but it is impossible to count the times I've seen people use bee's wax on the tools to prevent them from getting "loaded" with aluminum particles. What comes next? Welding of course and the resulting porosity!

Al
Parent - - By Tommyjoking (****) Date 03-19-2016 21:18
yep  the boelube is a similar issue...a paraffin based product.  An acetone wipedown before laying metal down is just a good practice ....no residue at all with acetone.  If you can strictly fabricate your joint with hard tooling you are better off.  However with the right steps abrasive cutting is doable.  There are too many factors that can cause porosity in an aluminum weld...contamination is probably the first step to address considering the op's first post.  BTW Hi AL!
Parent - By 803056 (*****) Date 03-20-2016 02:58
How are you Tommy? Good to see you drop by. We missed you Buckaroo!

Best regards - Al
Parent - - By Northweldor (***) Date 03-19-2016 21:53
Frank Armao also says:

"Minimizing porosity is mostly about cleanliness and housekeeping. There are actually many possible causes of porosity. Following are the top four culprits and how to prevent them from happening.

    Poor Preweld Cleaning. Be sure to degrease the part before you weld. Wipe down the surface of the material with a clean, lint-free rag saturated with a good degreasing solvent. Acetone and toluene are among the best. Alcohols are not good degreasers and should not be used for preweld cleaning. Following degreasing, the aluminum surface is then deoxidized, usually by using a stainless steel wire brush. Mistakes here are the most common cause of porosity.
    Insufficient Shielding Gas Flow Rate. For gas metal arc welding (GMAW), the flow rate should be at least 35 SCFH, although flow rates up to 60 SCFH can be used, especially with big gas nozzles. Argon/helium gas mixtures require even higher flow rates. For gas tungsten arc welding (GTAW), the flow rate should be at least 25 SCFH.
    Incorrect Nozzle-to-Work Distance. Simply put, this distance should be as small as possible, preferably in the range of ½ to 5/8 in. Longer nozzle-to-work distances can suck in surrounding air and other contaminants."
    Improper Gun Angle. Aluminum welding always requires a leading gun angle. If you try to use a drag angle or even a 90-degree angle, you will get porosity in your welds.
Parent - - By 522029 (***) Date 03-20-2016 13:31
That is correct. To finish those statements leads back to all of these factors contributing to entrapped hydrogen.

Thanks
Griff
Parent - - By Tommyjoking (****) Date 03-22-2016 01:35 Edited 03-22-2016 01:39
It always is the same old circle Griff...:lol:  There are some of the best discussions on this entire planet earth to reiterate the second post....just do a search if you want to learn something..  I have actually pulled some of those threads teaching tig classes at the votech  just to address prep so we could work on the actual doing and eliminate process problems.  There are three on here by my memory which should be text book content....they cover it all.
Parent - - By Stringer (***) Date 03-22-2016 23:42
Sait makes a dedicated grinding disc for aluminum and I've not had any issues with contamination or porosity.
Parent - - By 522029 (***) Date 03-22-2016 23:45
I also have used the Sait and the Norton dedicated grinding discs with no problems. 

Griff
Parent - - By waqasmalik (**) Date 03-23-2016 06:11
I have saved all the discussions regarding aluminum welding on this forum, be it regarding porosity, lack of fusion or cracks. I read them frequently and increase my knowledge.i would like to thank MR 803056, lawrence, ssbn and many others who put their efforts and spend time to share their valuable experiences with world.
I got benefited a lot from this forum, i love this.
Parent - - By waqasmalik (**) Date 03-23-2016 06:16
@tommyjoking
Could you please share those three which YOU think can become a textbook?
Thank you
Parent - By Tommyjoking (****) Date 03-26-2016 04:33
To respond to that would be difficult from a time passage standpoint.  I am about 3 pc's down the road from when I used them.  "by my memory".....that does not include URL'S .  sorry.
Parent - By Trackergd (**) Date 03-28-2016 19:59
We have been using 3M Cubatron with good results.
Parent - - By Trackergd (**) Date 03-29-2016 19:48
Interesting but rather short article in the April Welding Journal on grinding.
Attachment: GrindingWelds.jpg - Just.could.not.resist... (77k)
Parent - By Milton Gravitt (***) Date 03-29-2016 22:46
Some people can't handle the truth. LOL
   M.G.
Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / aLUMINUM GRINDING

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