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Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / Tungsten Selection for AC
- - By Blaster (***) Date 03-29-2016 01:03
So we have several modern TIG machines in the shop, older Dynasty 300, newer Dynasty 350, Dynasty 700, and Lincoln's Inverter TIGs with adjustable output frequency.

We use the advanced controls all time... Asymmetric wave, extended balance control, variable output frequency, and of course pulsing controls.  I have yet to find an instance where any alloyed tungsten (other than Zr) would weld as well, much less better than pure tungsten when working on thin materials at low current levels.

We have used boxes of Ce-2, La-1, La-1.5, and La-2.  .040", 1/16", 3/32", 1/8".  Long taper, short taper, no taper.  No blunt, small blunt, large blunt.

Balance with EN from 60 - 95%, most commonly 60-85%.  Output freq from 60 to the maximum cycle rate of the power source, most commonly 100-200 cycles.  From equal amperage level on EN and EP to twice the amperage level on EN as EP, most commonly equal to 50% higher on EN.

Now these advanced controls make the alloyed tungstens weld much better than without them.  However, in all cases I can think of the same control settings made the pure weld better yet (again speaking of lower current levels on thin material, primarily .040", 1/16", and 3/32" thick).  The main reason being the arc would come off the molten tip of the pure well focused rather than flaring more and/or riding up the side of the alloyed tungstens.  Additionally, it seems the alloyed tungstens tend to erode slowly while welding which in turn leads to arc control / flaring problems that don't appear with the pure electrodes that always have the nice small molten area on the end.

So what I would like to know is how exactly can I realize the purported benefits of the alloyed electrodes, such as La or Ce, over pure?  I will provide a simple scenario:   Single pass horizontal fillet on a T joint.  1/16" 5052 aluminum (brushed both sides and riser edge filed flat).  5356 fill rod.  Looking for full pen at the root and no burn through, blistering, or suck back.  Now we do this all the time, but I have always found it to be a comparative ***** with La or Ce.  Can you recommend power sources settings and electrode size (La or Ce) and end prep that would make this easier than with pure?

Thanks
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 03-29-2016 03:25
You have heard my spiel time and again.  It's the opposite of your experience, so it's hard to know how to approach :(

70% EN max (I prefer 65)

200 Hz

Pointed 1/16 tungsten. (Full length)

Water cooled torch

Any type other than pure, including thorium, which works fine if you don't overheat it.

Hot and fast, with the largest filler wire diameter the operator can manage, to keep the puddle cool.

Use this for practice until you are happy with the result.
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Parent - - By Blaster (***) Date 03-29-2016 14:39
Lawrence how long of a point do you recommend?
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 03-29-2016 15:10
For fillets I prefer the opposite of a long slim taper, so a more radical angle with a small blunt at the end.  This helps make the arc a little more conical.

Another thing did come to mind... Brands of tungsten electrodes can sometimes make a big difference.  I've seen really differing performance from the same "color" tungsten by various brands.
Parent - By Stringer (***) Date 03-31-2016 15:51
Most days I have Ceriated in my setup so I can throw the polarity switch on my Miller 350 Synchrowave and jump back and forth from steel to aluminum. But if it gets beyond light guage I change out to Zirconated for the aluminum. Agree with Lawrence that I can't find a use for pure and Austrian tungsten will outperform ZangZou brand.
Parent - By kcd616 (***) Date 04-02-2016 09:45
Lar,
pure balled tungsten, with helium on A/C
worked in the 1950's to the early 1980's
let us stick with the old faithful:wink::twisted::eek::evil:
and you young kids stay off my lawn:yell::lol:
sincerely,
Kent
PS: now tell me how stupid I am:twisted::wink::razz:
Parent - - By devo (***) Date 04-11-2016 22:06
After years of following Lawrence's advice, it is starting to take effect..
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Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 04-12-2016 01:07
What are those things?
Parent - - By Stringer (***) Date 04-12-2016 03:38
Omg they are post caps! Over the top and not in my pay grade post caps!
Parent - - By devo (***) Date 04-12-2016 04:15
post caps ...going to a Hilton hotel in Dallas TX. These were certainly the most involved post caps I've made yet.
Parent - By Tommyjoking (****) Date 04-14-2016 04:44 Edited 04-14-2016 04:50
ceriated or zircon....hell I have used thoriated plenty on thick and thin.  For Aluminum ceriated works best for me on an ac process.  It does degrade but with wide amperage application spits and splinters less then the rest on ac work.

omg custom made post caps!!
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 04-14-2016 11:22
That is some fine craftsmanship sir !

Really good work
Parent - - By devo (***) Date 04-15-2016 15:24
Thanks a million Lawrence. There's not a lot of Tig mentors to learn from out here in the middle of coal country, so I rely on people like you to provide the guidance when I need it.
This recent job  provided many unique challenges, but my fitup on the Japanese style caps was an unexpected success. I needed to figure out how to get a repeatable bend on all 36 caps, but with a little trial and error, I managed to get perfect fitup with only one hit on the  press. The design called for a 1/8" reinforcement on the weld for a decorative detail, so I tried to keep the weld cold, but still with clean toes. It turns out this is not so easy. Even after a wash pass to smooth out the ripples, the toes still looked a little ugly, but the client was happy.
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Parent - By kcd616 (***) Date 04-16-2016 09:15
very nice work:cool::smile:
clean fit and good lay-out
and good welds
kudo's to you
and picking Lawrence's brain shows you know who the smart people are:cool:
keep up the good work
thank you for sharing:cool::smile:
sincerely,
Kent
Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / Tungsten Selection for AC

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