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Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / Cleaning aluminum
- - By Harman (*) Date 06-15-2016 21:24
We are trying to understand what's the best way to clean aluminum ? We are welding 6061 with joints formed by material with thickness from .13 inches to 0.5 inch.

What I have read online, cleaning aluminum is two step process and first we should remove oil and grease before using SS brush. I was wondering what's the best method to remove oil and grease from aluminum ?

Our company had said no to acetone. I am debating between soap solution and alcohol ? How should I choose what to use and what factors I should be looking into before I buy a soap solution or alcohol ?

Thanks in advance
Parent - - By Blaster (***) Date 06-15-2016 21:37
I am not doing aerospace parts, but soap and water has always worked well for me.
Parent - By Harman (*) Date 06-17-2016 14:31
Is there any recommendation on concentration of soap solution?
Parent - - By 522029 (***) Date 06-16-2016 00:36 Edited 06-16-2016 01:01
I have been using "Aircraft grade Simple Green".  Works great and have had no problems over the last couple of years.
The only place I've found it is through  "Grainger".

HTH
Griff

PS
Grainger p/n 22NX99  $18.99US  32oz spray bottle
Parent - - By Harman (*) Date 06-17-2016 14:35
Did you use simple rags to clean using simple green?
Parent - By 522029 (***) Date 06-18-2016 13:48
Simply put, yes.
Parent - - By Trackergd (**) Date 06-16-2016 10:49
There at least a couple of threads on this very issue, however I will save you the search.

One of our main products for the military is made from 6061 and over the last year I have experienced more than a fair amount of pain getting this correct.  In the process I brought in 5 CWI's, two of them SCW's and two Weld Engineers.  It all came down to contamination and technique.

If you have dirty 6061, you have two choices: a) Get cleaner aluminum or b) Clean the aluminum in Bio Circle Alustar 100.  We use a tank with an agitator and heater.  We hang the parts in the bath for a couple of hours.  This also works well for cleaning reworked weldments before repair.

Bag the parts to limit the reformation of aluminum oxide as much as possible unless they are going directly to weld after drying.

When ready to weld, wipe the joint areas with Arcal Weld-O cleaner, then wire brush in ONE DIRECTION ONLY.  Brushing in both directions encourages oxide to form.  Pratt and Whitney uses wire brushing in both directions to cause oxide to form on jet engine parts.  Do not use power wire brushes...that did not go well for us.

Some additional points:

Do not run the parts through an abrasive deburing machine as it will create grooves that hold dirt and makes it MUCH harder to clean.  Hand debur edges.

Do not grind carbon steel in the same end of the building that you are welding aluminum.  It WILL contaminate the aluminum and create nightmares with the finished welds.

Ensure that your MIG and TIG fill are in sealed containers.  Use only good quality fill, not fill purchased from companies that buy up excess and respool it for resale.  Cover the spools on the machines when not in use.

Watch out for CRATER CRACKS.  Check a good size sample of the welds under 10X for crater cracks.  Ensure that your welders terminate their welds properly.  Turning the TIG cup away too soon at the end of a weld or poor MIG technique will result in nightmares, from crater cracks to throat cracks.  If they are not using a crater fill setting, ensure they are filling the crater.

Feel free to ask more questions if needed and I can point you to some very good websites such as: http://www.thefabricator.com/author/frank-armao
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 06-16-2016 13:28
What a great post !
Parent - By Trackergd (**) Date 06-16-2016 15:56
Thanks!   I was really trying for a "wall of text" :twisted:
Parent - By Harman (*) Date 06-17-2016 14:39
Thanks for the detailed explanation. We just have to weld 2 large parts and after reading the posts I was going to go ahead with soap solution or simple green.

On a side note, Our fab engineers have figured out a way to cut aluminum on lasers without putting them on fire. Let me if you want me to connect you with him.
Parent - - By Trackergd (**) Date 06-16-2016 16:07
Going to add a couple of things:

The first step is the cutting process.  6061 gives our laser issues as it is reflective and we end up setting fire to the bellow.  We use a water jet, and if you use a water jet, keep in mind that the water is under pressure with garnet sand suspended in it.  While the garnet does not cause all that much trouble (a surprise to us) the street water with all the minerals does and when you add the gunk that forms in the tank, you have the first step in the chain of woe and doom.   That is what the agitated bath is for.  To remove the poo from the parts.   Bagging the parts in plastic bags if they will not be used directly as it keeps contaminants off them.

By deburing machine I mean the belt sander type commonly known by the generic term "time saver".  People frequently forget to change belts between carbon steel and aluminum.  This is the second step in the chain of woe and doom.

We use the Bio cleaner in the wash tank as it can be put directly down the sanitary sewer and it is specially formulated for aluminum.  Simple Green did not do quite as good a job.   DO NOT let the parts sit in the tank for an extended amount of time else they will end up looking like the sacrificial anode on your outboard motor...after a long sit in salt water.

Hope this all helps!
Parent - - By 522029 (***) Date 06-17-2016 01:12
Just curious, did you use Simple Green or the Aircraft Grade Simple Green?

Griff
Parent - - By Trackergd (**) Date 06-17-2016 10:21
Hey Griff,

We tried both.  And yes Granger was our only source as well other going to the OEM.  The Bio-Circle did work better with less slimy residue that had to be rinsed off.  We built our soak tanks out of those square metal framed plastic carboy containers they ship chemicals in with the tops cut out.  In the wash tank we put a circulation pump, heating element and an an air powered shock vibrator.  It was very cost effective for high production over an ultrasonic cleaner of that size.  The second tank is just rinse water.  The parts are hung in the wash tank for about two hours or so and then in the rinse tank, then hosed off.   If you let the parts sit in the wash tank too long, it can start eating the aluminum, and in the rinse tank too long and the parts turn an odd grey and get white specks on them like a corroding aluminum anode.   The Bio-Circle Alustar 100 is a low alkalinity aluminum cleaner.  They have two higher, more aggressive aluminum cleaners, but that was a bit too much for our application.  The aircraft grade simple green is fine for cutting grease and dirt, but is not corrosive in any way and we needed a bit of an aggressive cleaning feature to get the carbon steel dust off and start to attack the oxide.  It made the entire process much easier, and like simple green, it can go down the drain.
Parent - By 522029 (***) Date 06-17-2016 13:55
Thanks for the reply and detailed explanation.

Griff
Parent - - By Trackergd (**) Date 06-17-2016 11:34
I forgot to note that the consensus from all the CWI's and Weld Engineers is that alcohol does little to nothing.  Acetone works much better.  If you can't use the Acetone, use the Weld-O.  You will be surprised at how much oxide and dirt it pulls off.  Also with regard to Acetone and Alcohol...it proved not to be a great idea to have very flammable liquids around a weld booth.  Alcohol burns with out much of a visible flame and it takes a moment to realize you have a fire.
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 06-17-2016 12:43 Edited 06-17-2016 12:48
Oh for the days of Trichlor and hot vapor degreasers

We used to have a vapor degreaser that had a jib and could run several CF6 compressor cases and all the aluminum and magnesium gear boxes you cared to drop into them...  The hot vapor would expand any defect in castings and allow the junk accumulated in thousands of flight hours to magically drain away, evenly warm the part, and be dry as a bone when lifted out of the tank...

Happy little trichlor squirt bottles (non-flammable) on every workbench and red dye penetrant kit....

But I guess the Ozone is happier these days and cancer rates are down.
Parent - By Harman (*) Date 06-17-2016 14:39
Thanks Lawrence.
Parent - By Don56 (**) Date 07-15-2016 19:34
"I loved the smell of TCE in the morning."
- - By gjertson Date 07-14-2016 12:52
I just happened upon this thread and I am in the middle if a good sized aluminum project. Thank you. I am constantly amazed by the concentration and depth of knowledge found on this sight.
Parent - - By Trackergd (**) Date 07-14-2016 17:45
It's all hard learned... :lol:

I am trying like mad to attend the upcoming AWS Aluminum weld conference in FL, if for no other reason than to camp out next to Frank Armao and soak up every comment he makes like a huge sponge.  For some odd reason I have an obsession with learning everything there is to know about aluminum welding issues and their causes.
Parent - By Lawrence (*****) Date 07-15-2016 22:02
I'm also a big fan of Frank A.

Spent most of a day in the D1.2 committee meeting in April because I knew "He" was gonna be in the same room.

Don't think I said a word  (I know, hard to believe)

I Feel the same about Duane Miller.   In fact Dr. Miller and I are presenting at the same conference this fall and I just can't believe it :)
- - By Trackergd (**) Date 07-19-2016 11:15
An update on our cleaning tank system.

Talked to the Fab manager and here is the formulation and soak time for the Bio Circle cleaner:

200 Gal Tank
1 1/2 Gal of Bio Circle Alustar 100
100 Degree temp
Parts hanging in the wash tank for 20 min.

We found that 20 min was long enough to get the parts clean.

We purchased the air powered vibrator from;  http://www.clevelandvibrator.com/   It sends shock waves through the water that work very well with the heat to break loose dirt.
Attachment: IMG_1170.JPG - Wash Tank (466k)
Attachment: IMG_1167.JPG - Shock vibrator (434k)
Attachment: IMG_1172.JPG - Shock waves on left, all the crud floating on the right (377k)
Parent - - By Milton Gravitt (***) Date 07-20-2016 00:20
How often do you change your tanks?

       M.G.
Parent - By Trackergd (**) Date 07-20-2016 12:31
At this time, we are cleaning sand blasted aluminum parts for rework, so it's getting changed out every two to three weeks and the crud gets skimmed off the top in-between.

On average we change out the solution at least once a month when fewer parts are going through it.  You have to judge based on what you are trying to clean off and how dirty the parts are, and how dirty the solution gets.

The Bio-Circle rep is pretty good at helping you figure that out.   If you are using one of the versions of simple green, it's pretty much your judgement and the feedback from the welders.
Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / Cleaning aluminum

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