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Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / Cracked Magnesium Repair
- - By TimGary (****) Date 06-25-2016 12:08
SO, I have a Buddy that has asked me for pointers for weld repair of a cracked cast magnesium wheel.
I haven't seen it, but he tells me the crack is radiating around the wheel hub, the wheel is solid (no spokes) and the thickness of the cracked area is about 3/8".
He can't tell me what exact grade of mag it is, or any other helpful data. This is not code work, just a home project.
I'm not familiar with Mag, so i thought I'd come here for some general tips.

" Lawrence! Help!"  :grin:

Thanks,
Tim
Parent - By 522029 (***) Date 06-25-2016 12:52
One thing to consider, most "mag" wheels are aluminum. 

HTH
Griff
Parent - - By Northweldor (***) Date 06-26-2016 11:51
"...This is not code work, just a home project...."

Clearly, if this repair is not done properly, it has the potential to kill not only the owner of the vehicle, and his passengers, but anyone else unfortunate enough to be on the road with them!

When, exactly, do your "code" standards kick in?
Parent - - By Tommyjoking (****) Date 06-26-2016 21:20
Take a file and file a little from the broken area....put it in a tight pile and put a bic lighter to it.  If it pops and sparks its mag....if it sits there its AL.    Almost no mag wheels being made these days......racing only or its from the late sixties.   IF you decide its a true mag wheel you will probably have to order filler.  Sorry no advice on alloy look up a chart on internet.  IT welds on ac TIG just like aluminum....clean the pee out of it first.   SS wire brush.  If you make a mistake and its mag and you apply aluminum filler it will just disintegrate shortly after welding and turn to powder.
Parent - - By TimGary (****) Date 06-27-2016 12:41
OK, thanks for the input guys.

NorthWelder - This wheel is not on a vehicle, or anything that anyone's life depends on. Just because I look stupid doesn't mean that I am...

The first thing I told my friend was that before I could give him any welding advice, he needs to ensure that the wheel is actually mag, not alum.
I told him to buff a small area and apply vinegar to check for a reaction (bubbles), and or to file off some dust and try to light it with a bic lighter. He hasn't gotten back to me yet with the results.

What I'm looking for is general advice on crack repair welding for Magnesium, even if my buddy's wheel turns out to be alum, just for general knowledge. I've been in the game long enough to know how to repair cracks in a lot of metals, just haven't ever done so for Mag, and am curious if there are certain tips and tricks to help ensure success.
I'm fully aware of the importance of and process for qualifying procedures for important work.

When I was learning to be a shipboard helicopter crash and smash fire fighter in the Navy, they told us that if the magnesium wheels on the chopper ignited, there's no point in trying to extinguish them as the mag burns so hot that spraying with water actually make it burn hotter, because the fire will break the H2O molecules into oxygen and hydrogen. Also, it wouldn't take long for the fire to melt through the steel ship deck, so the best thing to do is simply push the chopper overboard.
And, as an amateur pyrotechnician, I know that magnesium is the key ingredient to make spectacular fireworks.
Considering these things, I don't understand how magnesium can be welded on safely....
I would truly hate to tell my buddy to grind out the crack, prepare a bevel, clean, preheat and TIG in the root, just to have the thin root face ignite and burn down his shop...

Tim
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 06-27-2016 13:11 Edited 06-27-2016 13:20
I'll say  this about that:   If the wheel is for a vehicle (whether aluminum or mag) I don't provide advice.  Except to approach the OEM of the of the part and get written repair procedures.   I know the AWS is constantly showing pictures of guys in shops welding on "Mag" and aluminum wheels...  I've even done it myself several decades ago...   Not anymore.

Now if this wheel is for static display or  some benign part of some machinery, it will still be important to do some research if possible to identify the magnesium alloy.... (all the above text on Mag identification is good).

My experience, especially with complex shapes, is that unlike aluminum, there can be some benefit in pre-heating the base metal prior to welding in order to have a more even cooling rate of the part (blankets etc, or back into the oven for cooling under control)

100% route of cracks followed by dye penetrant check.... You CANNOT weld over any residual cracking in mag and get away with it.

There is a lot of blather about helium mixes... This is only necessary if your power supply does not have the power to start a weld puddle at once.  Hot and fast.   Note:  Unlike aluminum GTAW... Arc terminations should be slammed shut; Meaning after the last dab of filler take your foot off the pedal all at once... Don't tail off slowly.

The article below provides some data on base metal/filler selections (AZ101 being the most versatile)  Filler rod angle/placement is more important with Mag than aluminum, so pay attention to the instructions given here.  Some solid guidance that will save me a lot of typing.

http://www.totalmateria.com/Article35.htm

For GTAW crack repair I agree with AC... Balance not exceeding 60% EN (so about 6-7 on the Synchrowave balance dial)   60-100 Hz.  Nothing special.   For buildup of lugs and flat surfaces DCEP and a giant tungsten can be used with helium gas. But your scenario does not fit that description.

If you can score us a pic of the part and the defect, I can say more about the dark art of preheat/postheat and defect routing.

One nice thing about Mag is that it does not load up carbide burrs like aluminum does :)
Parent - - By TimGary (****) Date 06-27-2016 13:57
Thanks Lawrence, I appreciate your time and advice.
Have you ever had a piece of Mag ignite while welding?
Any tips to prevent this?

Thanks,
Tim
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 06-27-2016 15:43
Hey Tim,

I've welded Magnesium in just about any configuration you can imagine with GTAW. The inert shielding keeps the fire hazard at bay.    The only thing I've ever noted is that when I got sloppy and left fresh grinding dust on the part, work table or blankets that a quick flash can occur.. But never a fire, just the dust faired and then gone.

Having a delta class fire extinguisher on hand is of course a requirement :)
http://www.fire-extinguisher101.com/class-d-fires.html
Parent - By TimGary (****) Date 06-27-2016 17:01
OK, thanks!

Tim
Parent - By mike wiebe 3 (*) Date 06-27-2016 19:35
I remember way back when while I was in the service we were doing quite a bit of mag. Had quite a bit of the "dust" build up on the inside of the cup. When the argon shut off the cup was still hot enough that the dust ignited and blew up the ceramic cup.
Parent - By lo-hi (**) Date 06-28-2016 17:47
The amps required to weld mag is a lot lower than aluminum, start low ,maybe 50 or 60 amps then increase as needed. If you approach it like alum the part could be damaged. The last time I bought filler metal their was only a few selections .
Parent - - By Northweldor (***) Date 06-27-2016 20:37 Edited 06-27-2016 20:41
Tim:

My apologies for assuming that you were talking about repairing an auto or truck wheel.

The reason for my knee-jerk reaction is that I have always been puzzled by the fact that there are many companies, in Canada and the US, offering cheap repairs to automotive aluminum wheels, and there seems to be very little information on how the repairs are done while preserving original structural strength, or approximating it. In fact, some operations are franchises, and operational requirements are minimal. Most of these advertise "certified weldors" and "guaranteed safety", but, it is difficult to find out who did the certification and how quality is controlled.
One exception is the province next door, British Columbia, which has a clear set of defined standards for wheel-repair shops, even defining the type of equipment needed, as well as certification required.

http://www.bclaws.ca/civix/document/id/complete/statreg/5_97

In Alberta, though we have many repair shops,  and the rest of Canada, I have been unable to find anything like this.
Parent - By Tommyjoking (****) Date 07-08-2016 05:04 Edited 07-08-2016 05:09
just approach it like al of similiar thickness as far as prep and heat input ..preheat etc,    just do not get crazy with flame preheat.   Dont be scared you can warm it up with a rosebud or weed burner just be more gentle and don't exceed lets say 500f max.  For welding purpose off the top of my head I would say 400f ceiling for a THICk weldment.  Keep chemical dry extinguishers handy...water cannons will cause much grief.  It welds just like cast al pretty much every time I have ever encountered it..

Except not quite as sensitive to contamination
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