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Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / Welding over Galvanizing
- - By Dreizehn (*) Date 08-08-2016 17:19
My company is asking me to write a procedure for welding over galvanized steel(GMAW Spray-arc, to D1.1 code) and to my, very limited, knowledge that is not allowed per 5.15. My question is, is it even possible to do a PQR on something like this? From my experience you remove the galvanizing 2-4 inches around the weld area. I'm personally not comfortable welding over galvanizing, PQR or not.

We don't own a copy of AWS WZC/D19.0-72 so I can't reference that, so I'm hoping there's something in D1.1 to back my argument.

Thanks.
Parent - By kcd616 (***) Date 08-08-2016 17:54
I will let the code experts speak about code
but as far as welding
MIG and galvinized
NEVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:eek:
how I was taught and still do it is
SMAW 6012 or 6013
this is just IMHO
sincerely,
Kent
btw: reason for no MIG on galvanized is
spits off metal products
thereby fubaring the mig cup, tip, etc etc
Parent - By Lawrence (*****) Date 08-08-2016 19:12
I thought I hand a quick answer for you... Sorry I don't.

The only thing that gives guidance including a measurement after a pretty thorough search provides is for "Repair and Strengthening:   (note the word "galvanized" does not occur in the text)

"8.5.1 Base Metal Condition. Base metal to be repaired
and surfaces of existing base metal in contact with new
base metal shall be cleaned of dirt, rust and other foreign
matter except adherent paint film as per SSPC SP2 (Surface
Preparation Specification #2—Hand Tool Cleaning).
The portions of such surfaces which will be welded
shall be thoroughly cleaned of all foreign matter including
paint for at least 2 in [50 mm] from the root of the
weld."

Having said that (which isn't much yet)   I agree with your desire to qualify a procedure or preferably remove the zinc completely.
Parent - - By TimGary (****) Date 08-08-2016 19:19
D1.1 doesn't much tell you what you can't weld, rather it says that except for certain pre-qualified cases, you have to qualify the welding process / parameters / conditions that you expect before claiming to do work in accordance with the requirements in D1.1.
The latest edition on D1.1 lightened up on surface contaminants, which is a bone of contention...

"5.14.4 Foreign Materials
5.14.4.1 Surfaces to be welded, and surfaces adjacent
to the weld, shall be cleaned to remove excessive quantities
of the following:
(1) Water
(2) Oil
(3) Grease
(4) Other hydrocarbon based materials
Welding on surfaces containing residual amounts of foreign
materials is permitted provided the quality requirements
of this code are met.
5.14.4.2 Welds are permitted to be made on surfaces
with surface protective coatings or anti-spatter compounds,
except those that are prohibited in 5.14.4.1, provided
the quality requirements of this code can be met."

Basically, this means that if you want to weld over zinc, you have to qualify the procedure first.
Qualifying a procedure for hot dip galv is mostly a crap shoot because who knows how thick the zinc will be in the weld areas to be encountered in production, so a procedure qualified under normal conditions may produce bad welds in areas where the zinc is thicker than normal. Bad welds are a liability concern for the contractor, not AWS...
Also, weld fume concerns are also up to the contractor to deal with, not AWS...

I think it's your responsibility to educate yourself and your company about all of the concerns around welding over zinc, before you do so.

That being said, there's a big difference between using Hobart Fabcore F6 to make non-critical welds on galvanealed material, than making moment connections on HDG beams.

I have a copy of the WZC D19.0 - 72. It's full of out dated advice about using different processes on zinc coated material, as well as cracking and safety info. Nothing about procedure qualification.

Tim
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 08-08-2016 20:26
5.14.4.2  is a symphony of weasel words.

I see nothing in the current (or past, I went back to 92) code that can be leveraged as a demand to perform a PQR on coated material (paint or galv). 

AWS D1.3 is refreshingly clear on that:
"4.8.2 Specific Conditions. Separate welder qualifications
shall be required for welding galvanized sheet steel
or sheet steel with other coating."
Parent - By jwright650 (*****) Date 08-09-2016 11:40
D1.3 also has an additional advantage due to the coating thickness on sheet steel vs fabricated structural steel that is hot dipped......you have such a variance in thickness, it may be tough to write a WPS/PQR , unless you did several for different coating thicknesses to develop a range that assures acceptable welding deposits, time and time again.
Parent - - By TimGary (****) Date 08-09-2016 12:28
Yup, after going back and looking deeper, I sadly have to agree.
No wonder Al is so adamant about referring to D1.1 as the new farm code...
I think I'll do a technical inquiry on this one...

Tim
Parent - By Lawrence (*****) Date 08-09-2016 15:14
I don't like it... That's just how I read it.

Note:  I don't use the word 'interpret'    (Thanks Al)
- By Dreizehn (*) Date 08-08-2016 19:37
Thanks for the input. I would never have thought about the galv thickness differentiating from part to part.

Being as this is something I'm personally uncomfortable with I approached it from a financial stand point with my boss and once I mentioned the money for the PQR(and personnel hours etc.) and the time it might take to hear back from a lab he scrapped that whole idea. My mentality is take 10 minutes to do it right the first time so you don't take 10 hours repairing it later, we can grind a little galv off.

And about the fumes, our safety director and I have a group of 4 guys allowed to weld on galv. They've all read literature and watched videos and have been fitted with respirators. It's not fun, but these guys were crazy enough to volunteer.

Thanks again gentlemen.
Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / Welding over Galvanizing

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