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Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / Stndards for Humidity?
- - By Metarinka (****) Date 09-06-2016 15:00
Anyone ever hear of any workmanship standards or experience for humidity in a workshop?  I'm doing some D17.1 work and the facility has a higher than standard defect rate for porosity in titanium and Inconel GTAW weldments.  After auditing their cleaning and weld prep practices I can't really find any holes or practical process improvements.

I have however noted that all the buildings are cooled with swamp coolers and the relatively cold mornings bring the dew point close to the atmospheric temperature.  My only guess is that they aren't driving the moisture of parts prior to tacking and no amount of acetone wiping will help if you are blowing humid air onto your parts while fitting.

I've never enountered this before as every other D17.1 shop I've been in was AC'd.

Material is all grade 5 titanium or 625, I'm starting to scratch my head on how they are getting all the porosity as I can't find any of the obvious normal sources.
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 09-06-2016 16:34
Is it possible there is vaporized cutting fluid in the air?  I could see milling or cutting operations bringing hydrocarbons into the picture.

I still have a real hard time suspecting humidity to be a factor as you describe it.

300 series stainless is welded in similar conditions every day, under the highest inspection values and porosity is not an issue... I really don't see how Inconel (any Inconel) would be more sensitive to humidity.

Titanium is far more sensitive to contamination of any sort.  But even here... water/humidity is a stretch..

I'm betting on something else as your porosity culprit.
Parent - By Metarinka (****) Date 09-06-2016 18:07
Yeah it's stumping me too.  Nickel based alloys like Inconel should be a walk in the park you should be doing something very wrong in order to get porosity.  Any audit I perform everything looks good, the shielding gas is clean to 4 ppm, welds are coming out bright silver or straw at worst, titanium welds are bright silver.

They flap wheel grind 2" on each side, followed by scotch bright then acetone wipe with lint free.  Welding rod is acetone wiped and put in on clean craft paper.  The shop is dirty but no cutting fluid or fluid within this building. 

All 100% argon thin wall 0.020-0.120"  Seems to affect the thicker welds more often, always caught in X-ray. About 10% of parts and when it happens it's bad.   I'm going to try welding pieces for a few weeks in an atmospheric chamber just to rule out bad shielding but I would have thought to see that if the welds were something other than bright silver.  Only other guess is that it's actual entrapped pockets of air under tack welds or some other internal pore.  The cleaning procedures appear to be quite good.
Parent - - By Trackergd (**) Date 09-06-2016 19:00
I suspect another culprit as well.

Inconel forms a passivating oxide layer when heated.  Are the parts preheated or go through any "work hardening" type processes before welding?

If the parts are not preheated, is it possible to very lightly preheat the parts before welding to drive off any moisture?
Parent - By Metarinka (****) Date 09-07-2016 14:47
the parts have generally gone through multiple cold forming operations like stamping, bending or other metal forming most are room temperature. We do weld some parts in the as heat treated condition but it's rare. Surface oxides and any scale seem to be very well removed via sanding/grinding.  I could investigate a preheat.
Parent - By jwright650 (*****) Date 09-06-2016 16:44
https://app.aws.org/mwf/attachments//61/245961/AmbientConditionforPaintingRev1.xls

I created a worksheet several years back for the painting department...it's a quick check for them whether it's OK to paint or not based on humidity/dewpoint and surface temperatures. Not sure if you can use this or not for your situation, thought I would post it up, just in case.
Parent - - By 46.00 (****) Date 09-06-2016 23:51
Anything over 55% humidity has been a limit I have seen stated in welding procedures. I have seen cut off points when this level was exceeded. This was for highly  classed welds in both Aluminium and Stainless steels.
Parent - - By Metarinka (****) Date 09-07-2016 14:48
Thanks I look into this more. D17.1 doesn't mention anything.
Parent - By Superflux (****) Date 09-07-2016 17:06
Rampant porosity seems to come from either improper shielding (operator technique?), or contamination "most" of the time.
Hmmm. Time to go to full throttle CSI mode.

1) is there any pattern to the porosity?
a. certain areas of the facility
  1. individual operators
  2. certain components, alloys
2) could a leak in the gas manifold be the culprit
3) cooling fans from either personnel comfort or equipment
4) poor maintenance on pneumatic tools, hoses blowing in to work stations
a. air tool lube getting on to the parts from over lubrication
Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / Stndards for Humidity?

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