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Up Topic Welding Industry / Metallurgy / Ancient steel
- - By MRWeldSoCal (***) Date 11-28-2016 19:05
Hey all,

Question, when making iron in a ceramic stack furnace, where they stack coal and wood and pour in powdered iron, how do they or did they regulate carbon content in the final product?  Is there a way to make steel from ore in oh say my back yard if I was to make a very small amount?  Sounds crazy but I want to make a knife from dirt.  Just not sure about purifying the carbon content.  I have access to a spectrometer to tell whats in the final product but regulating the carbon in the smelting process is where I am hitting a wall.  Can it be done simply in a forge?

Jordan
Parent - - By TimGary (****) Date 11-29-2016 12:45
Fascinating topic...

I went looking for a video documentary I've seen that details the making the carbon steels for a Samurai Sword, but didn't find it. It showed the ancient method.
The link below is pretty good and might help in your search.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_swordsmithing

Tim
Parent - - By MRWeldSoCal (***) Date 11-30-2016 04:58
I'm super fascinated with ancient hand carved monoliths.  I just cant wrap my head around just how they build such amazing things.  I'm trying to figure it out.  I mean I cant see in the history of man, someone not throwing some iron powder on a fire and finding hard metal pieces after it was out. Or maybe people had steel tools much earlier than we thought but they were worth more than gold much like a real craftsman would expect them to be worth back then.  I mean couldnt they have rusted away many many years after the site was abandoned?  I'm full of questions.  I don't think people back then were that stupid.  The size of these stones and the craftsmanship is unbelievable,  check out this video of some of these ancient rocks...  I really does looks like they figured a way to soften the rock.  Places literally all over the world have the same soft gouging patterns.

------>  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7xBwGNLnpo

Jordan
Parent - - By TimGary (****) Date 11-30-2016 10:55
Parent - By MRWeldSoCal (***) Date 11-30-2016 23:34
I think that spread out across the earth there had to be people who understood metal working ahead of others.  I know they split the bronze age and the iron age but I cant see that someone didn't figure out to throw iron powder into a fire pit and notice perhaps small iron pieces after the fire was out.  I would think we wouldn't find much for steel tools not just because they might rust away over time but also because a true craftsman who perhaps make his own steel chisel or hammer prob would hold it close like no other just because of what it is and what it can do.  I doubt anything of steel nature would be left behind at a large carving operation.

Jordan
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 11-29-2016 13:08
What a cool idea.

I know zero.

But there are a bunch of "knife maker" forums out there and they talk about exotic projects all the time.  I was reading about knives made out of meteorites, from ancient Egypt to modern workmanship...   So I bet it's been done before and blogged about :)
Parent - - By MRWeldSoCal (***) Date 11-29-2016 21:42
Im going to keep digging to find something.  Im trying to not make a super brittle blade.  I figured this could be a cool part of teaching a blacksmith class..

Jordan
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 11-30-2016 12:53
During the early ages until the 1800's they would use the "puddling" method of converting pig iron to cast and then to steel.

The high carbon iron melted at a much lower temperature than steel. The cast iron was melted and then stirred with a steel rod exposing the high carbon iron to oxygen in the air. This burned off the carbon but introduced oxides into the melt. As the carbon burns off, the melting temperature rises and the metal melt becomes "pasty". When the iron monger was satisfied with the consistence, it indicated sufficient carbon was burned off and the melt allowed to solidify, oxide inclusions and all. The mass was heated and hammered into bars. The oxides melt at a lower temperature than the steel and are driven toward the free edges. The oxide left in place are known as stringers. The bar was cut, folded and forge welded to form another bar. Each cutting, folding, heating, and hammering reduced the amount of oxide left in the resulting bar. After the process was repeated six or seven times, the resulting steel was "nearly" free of oxide stringers. I've read that a man could produce about 50 pounds of steel in a day.

Best regards - Al
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 11-30-2016 13:05
That is amazing Al  Thanks for the History lesson.

Of course he knows all this because he was there !
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 11-30-2016 14:00
I remember you were always a cocky apprentice working under my tutelage. I figured you would remember the finer details of the operation.

Al :cool:
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 11-30-2016 15:54
I remain under your tutelage Sir :)

I go way back, but not as far as you.
Parent - By 803056 (*****) Date 12-01-2016 02:38
Can you guess which figure is Lawrence?

:lol:
Parent - By jwright650 (*****) Date 11-30-2016 15:04
:cool: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Parent - By MRWeldSoCal (***) Date 11-30-2016 23:29
Thanks Al for the lesson, Ive been non stop all about melting rocks into steel for some time now haha, its addicting!

Jordan
Parent - By kcd616 (***) Date 12-02-2016 07:39 Edited 12-02-2016 07:44
Jordan,
you really want to know
flux is great:cool::eek::smile:
my guess is he is on the road now
but he is the one who can give you insight
sincerely,
Kent
no offense to Al, Lawrence, or Tim:cool:
hey John hi buddy:yell:
Up Topic Welding Industry / Metallurgy / Ancient steel

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