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Up Topic Welding Industry / Inspection & Qualification / Round Bar WPS Question
- - By jhall773 Date 05-22-2017 20:28
I am trying to find a prequalified CJP joint detail In D1.1 for welding 2in solid round bar. I have never been asked this question before and not sure what joint configuration i should use. I saw B-U3b in Figure 3.3 but i am worried the starts and stops may cause more bad than good. He wants to use SMAW as well. Anyone out there have any advice???
Parent - By 803056 (*****) Date 05-22-2017 21:27
Any groove detail, V-, Bevel, J-, U-, ect., with extension tabs should eliminate the incomplete fusion issues at the starts and stops. Check D1.1:2010 Clause 5.31.1 or D1.1:2015, Clause 5.31.1.

Parent - - By welderbrent (*****) Date 05-23-2017 00:52
UUMM, did I miss something?  To be a Pre-Qualified CJP joint with 2" solid round bar, you will need to make sure your material is in the approved base materials list in Clause 3 Tables.  Then, you will need to make sure you are using an approved process and electrode in combination with the material. 

NOW, you can decide if there is a Pre-Approved joint configuration that will fit your need. 

A question, this is not a PJP Flare Bevel or Flare V Groove weld?  So the end of the round bar is being welded to??? a plate?  another bar?  ??  Just wondering.

He Is In Control, Have a Great Day,  Brent
Parent - - By jhall773 Date 05-23-2017 02:12
The 2" round bar is welded end to end. Material is pre approved as well as filler metal. On the WPS where would i need to note run off tabs? All the welding will be able to be done in the flat position. Just checking because the welders will need to restest with different WQTR. Just wanna get the headache out the way now so no revisions and re qual later.
Parent - By TimGary (****) Date 05-23-2017 12:24 Edited 05-23-2017 13:21
You can always add additional process notes to the minimum requirements detailed in a WPS.
To specify the material type, size and configuration of the runs off tabs, including a sketch, would be helpful.

Edit - If your welders are already qualified for groove welds with the intended process, there's probably no need for additional performance qualification. See D1.1 table 4.12 for essential WPQR variables.

I have a question about weld size in this case, but don't want to hijack your post, so will make my own.
You'll want to check it out.

Parent - By welderbrent (*****) Date 05-23-2017 13:43

The welders SHOULD not need to be re-qualified.  It does not appear that there is anything here that would bring such a condition into play.  This is a common misconception that welders  need to be qualified to several different WPS's.  After qualifying to the D1.1:2015 standard test in Clause 4 there is seldom need for requalification.  Even with most PQR's.  Once the PQR has been qualified the welders are able to weld it without a retest unless the customer wants them to prove ability on THEIR exact job.  And, the person who ran the test for the PQR is automatically qualified to that PQR/WPS. 

All you need is an applicable and approved Pre-Qualified WPS with all essential variables included.  Some of the items you are concerned about are not ESSENTIAL variables.  They are ways and means BUT are always beneficial to make sure the welders complete the task as expected for optimum chances of proper welding.

It appears we have three different views of completing this weld:

1) Using a backing bar and not rotating the bar; this is not just a run off tab but a backing bar so that the CJP groove weld is completed as a flat groove weld with backing.  There could be more clean up afterward with this but it is normally more successful in operation especially with a backing/run off tab.  Just fill it up as you would any CJP but obviously they will be short welds.  There are really no start/stop issues as the welds terminate on the backing bar/run off tab. 

2) You could also run this with the V only beveled about 1/2 way through and use the butted V as the backing and attach the run off tabs in line with that so you only weld 1/2 your thickness from each side.  Backgouge by grinding or air arc before welding the first pass from the opposite side as normal.  Less clean up than with the first option.

3) Rotating the bar, which would make run off tabs highly inconvenient if usable at all.  Starts and stops are definitely an issue here as few welders will stop to clean slag before coming around to the start and just run over the slag as they come to it.  There are other issues as well mainly with the root.  That first couple of layers is a trick for the inexperienced. 

He Is In Control, Have a Great Day,  Brent
- By Justin3382 Date 05-23-2017 12:52
We spliced some A36 2" round stock recently and used B-U5-GF (FCAW). Beta was 0 with a 45 degree bevel, 0 root opening and 0 root face. Instead of using runoff tabs we had strong backs in place and held a pause at the start and stop to let the puddle build up/catch up. In the end the parts were straight and the UTs were clean.
Up Topic Welding Industry / Inspection & Qualification / Round Bar WPS Question

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