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Up Topic Welding Industry / Inspection & Qualification / Weld Run Off Tabs
- - By bmaas1 (***) Date 08-01-2017 18:41 Edited 08-01-2017 19:09
Been a long time since I been on here. I'm going to throw this out there but I am pretty sure I know the answer to it already.

Per D1.1 and D1.5 are run off tabs allowed for welder qualification and procedure qualification tests?

I apologize if this sounds like a stupid question. The reason I ask is the person I am having this discussion with says that it doesn't show it on the figure so it's not allowed and prohibited. Uhm I'm pretty sure it doesn't work that way.  What are your thoughts?


Parent - By jwright650 (*****) Date 08-01-2017 19:09
I LOVE it when the welder asks where the run-off tabs are. Yes, run-off tabs are allowed, their use is highly encouraged by me whenever I'm testing welders.
Good to see you Brian :cool:
Parent - By jwright650 (*****) Date 08-01-2017 19:19
Also take note of Clause 5.31.1
Run-off tabs are a way to ensure that Clause 5.31 is satisfied.
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 08-01-2017 19:36
Hi Brian

Yes  run-tabs are acceptable.

Here is the justifying text from the AWS D1.1 Book of Interpretations.
Parent - - By bmaas1 (***) Date 08-01-2017 19:58
Yes I knew they were allowed and encouraged since everyone and place I know of use them in the structural world. The person I was discussing it with was insistent that since it was not shown on the diagram it's not allowed and still maintains that view.
Parent - - By bmaas1 (***) Date 08-01-2017 19:58
The the book of interpretations available anywhere I can access?


Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 08-01-2017 21:57
Don't be too hard on the guy Brian,,,,  If his question made it to the sacred interpretation epistle of the Big Red Book.... His question must be a good one eh?

Where can you get interpretations???   I paid for a hard copy...

What?   For Free?

Shut up !!!!

A glossary of all the code interpretations for all the codes you say ?

Bookmark and download fellas... When they find out they are giving this away for free somebody will put a stop to it :)
Parent - - By bmaas1 (***) Date 08-01-2017 23:21
Well I knew that I was correct. Just looking for something a little more "official" than what the code states lol. 5.31.1 wasn't good enough I guess. It wasn't really a good question he had since everything he was basing his argument on was, "if it's not on the diagram then it's not allowed". Give me a break. This is another CWI BTW.
Parent - By jwright650 (*****) Date 08-02-2017 11:04
I feel like if you can satisfy 5.31.1 without run-off tabs, good for you, but run-off tabs sure help with that. I see no reason not to use them during performance testing. The code mentions removal of the run-off tabs prior to RT'ing the coupon in
Parent - By bmaas1 (***) Date 08-01-2017 23:35
Do you think this still applies to current code? I know it should but it's like trying to convince a door knob of something.
Parent - - By bmaas1 (***) Date 08-02-2017 00:10
"Its very clear not grey at all when you look at the figure it clearly shows you how to make the qualification test. And it does not show run off tabs you can just interpret the code how you want it is clearly showing in the figure how to make...Now you show me any where in the code or any figure that shows different and I will agree with you ...."

Names have been removed to protect the guilty lol. But this is a statement he made.
Parent - - By welderbrent (*****) Date 08-03-2017 00:57 Edited 08-03-2017 04:20
The only thing that is CLEAR in this is that someone was just plain LUCKY to have passed the CWI exams. 

When looking at all of the documentation for the use of run off/weld tabs throughout D1.1 along with the Official Interpretation which could not be any clearer as to the allowed usage of weld tabs you can also add that after that interpretation Clause 4.9.1 included verbiage to indicate that while the whole length of the test plates were subject to VT any weld on the weld tabs was not part of VT. 

Since 4.22.1 Visual Inspection takes you to Clause 4.9.1 for the acceptance criteria it is obvious this applies to the Welder Performance testing procedures. 

Edit: Was just reading and then spotted John's comment about removing them prior to RT according to along with the Commentary.  Kinda hard to remove them if they weren't even allowed in the first place.

Someone needs to swallow their pride and just admit they learned something and that their original interpretation was wrong.

He Is In Control, Have a Great Day,  Brent
Parent - By jwright650 (*****) Date 08-03-2017 13:51
One thing about the CWI exams is trying to read more into the question than the question is asking. I think this may be the issue with Brian's friend.
- - By 803056 (*****) Date 08-01-2017 20:33 Edited 08-01-2017 23:52
I use longer plates to eliminate the need for extension tabs.

Which is faster, easier, and less expensive; extension tabs or longer plates? I opt for the longer plates. Is it permitted? The length of the test plates in the figures are listed as minimums (the last I checked "min." meant minimum). As a matter of fact, it is capitalized in the figures.

Not all CWIs pass with scores in the 90s.

Nothing like an official interpretation to make the point.

Parent - By Milton Gravitt (***) Date 08-04-2017 18:19
I think that's what the test plate that he shows is saying.

Parent - - By Joey (***) Date 08-08-2017 04:18
Al, before reading your response, I'm also thinking about using longer plates since the figure states 7"min.
If 10" length of test coupons were used and after the test you cut 1 1/2" at both ends, then why can't run off tabs be used?:grin:
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 08-08-2017 12:46
My position is the figure list the dimensions as minimum and does not prohibit  the use of extension tabs. The interpretation provided says they are acceptable. End of story. What is more economical in terms of time and cost? In the absence of more definition by the customer/owner, go with the less expensive method, i.e., longer test plates or extension tabs.

NYDOT specified the plates must be 5 inches in length, no extension tabs permitted, and the entire 5 inches must pass VT. But, most people that have worked with NYDOT understand NY is a world unto themselves. 

Just my opinion.

Parent - - By welderbrent (*****) Date 08-09-2017 00:36
And a GOOD welder should be able to accomplish that. 

BUT, why when it is allowed and in many cases desired by the employer and/or customer to ensure soundness at the ends of the weld.

He Is In Control, Have a Great Day,  Brent
Parent - By 803056 (*****) Date 08-09-2017 02:21
And they can, if they are very good welders.

I believe the code committees take the view point that an average welder should be capable of meeting the requirements of the acceptance criteria. The reason for using extension tabs is to ensure the groove is filled to the full cross section without notches or undercut at the end of the groove.

I think the argument has run its course.

Parent - By Joey (***) Date 08-14-2017 04:01
With end tabs or without end tabs on preparation of splice joint (steel plate) for production welding?

This can be part of your checklist when you are tasked to make assessment on factory practices of potential vendors.

With end tabs, no question to ask.

Without end tabs, that will be an observation finding that the vendor has to address.
Up Topic Welding Industry / Inspection & Qualification / Weld Run Off Tabs

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